 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-01-18 01:26
Did a search because I would have rather added on to that one, but haven't found any recent ones (within two years) so I decided to start one.
Just tonight I found a funny solution. I was at dunkin' donuts grabbing some coffee with a 'chum', and was biting down on the cups and lids. And I found that the arc of the lid to the small coffee cup seemed to match the curve of my lower teeth fairly well . . .
So after some careful disecting with a razor blade and a little filing (as insurance to protect from TOO sharp an edge), I separated about one half of an inch of the plastic lid from the rest (slightly smaller than the part that lifts up for you to drink out of). Then I trimmed it down to just the section that sticks to the cup, and VOILA! A smooth, hard, bottom tooth cover was born!
Virtually unlimited supply (I don't see cup lids going out of style any time soon), and it worked very well for me. Go ahead and give it a shot! Even seemed to make some of those SLIGHTLY too hard reeds to work (due to the harder surface pressing up on the reed I guess) and so gave me more flexibility in my reed choices. Or maybe it's a placebo effect?
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Avie
Date: 2005-01-18 02:34
It may be a good idea to wear a guard of some kind. I wonder what the pros and cons are on the effects of adding a guard to the embouchur would have on the clarinet tone, articulation, technique, etc. We probably would be able to play longer and be able to apply more pressure which may help in some cases. It could catch on especially with those that have sharp teeth. I would be interested in how the experienced BB posters feel about guarding the teeth. Please keep us informed of your progress. Maybe Ill start saving my coffee lids. I hope we dont drive up the price of coffee ![[toast]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley15.gif)
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Author: frank
Date: 2005-01-18 03:45
Years ago I had a very sore, torn up interior of my bottom lip all the time when I played. The solution? I developed a proper embouchure and voila... no more sore, torn up bottom lip! Strengthen your lips and don't bite. Don't use reeds that are too hard. A good way to tell if you are biting too hard is if you bite through the mouthpiece patch (assuming you use one) and you seem to have to replace them often.
It's always better to permanently fix the problem than just treat the symptom.
Post Edited (2005-01-18 03:49)
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-01-18 03:52
Clever solution, Alexi. I think the need for a guard is mainly a function of how irregular or sharp one's lower teeth are. I would have some concern about the possibility of the guard getting lodged in my airway.
Bob Draznik
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Author: John Stackpole
Date: 2005-01-18 11:43
Frank, one posting back, mentions a "mouthpiece patch"
Whazat?
I sure hope it is not yet another variable feature to add to the list of reed, mouthpiece, ligature, barrel, and the rest of the instrument, not to mention the human being doing the playing, that can make a difference. The number of combinations is now astronomical, add another variable and it becomes infinite.
No wonder cl-players are never satisfied. And a little nuts.
JDS
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Author: mattahair
Date: 2005-01-18 13:30
Around here we have always used cut-up pieces of denture cushion (does anyone else use these???). It's basically pieces of fabric covered in pink wax; very effective. The wax will soften in your mouth and conform to your teeth so it doesn't slid around and all. I feel it does affect my tone, though; I only use them when I have been playing for hours and I feel like I am about to bite through my lip.
When the band must play on, grab the denture cushions!
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-01-18 14:17
I didn't expect it to have any affect on tone, articulation, etc. etc. And truth be told (frank! ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif) ) I normally don't use one nor have a reason to use one as I have built up a callous on my bottom lip. Just that yesterday I went from being your average clarinet player sittin' in a cafe, chewin' on a coffee cup lid, to being Benjamin Franklin (albeit on a much smaller, and much odder scale).
Afterwards though, I obtained a small plastic baggie with which to store it in and am keeping it in my case. I think most of us can say that we experience SOME (if even very slight) discomfort playing without a guard, and most of the time ignore it. But this got rid of that. It also (like I said, I don't know why . . . it could even just be altered perception from a placebo effect) helped me to play on my reeds that were slightly hard and I hadn't yet sanded down.
I know many players have mentioned using wax, folded cigarette paper, custom made guards from a dentist, a small piece of a commercial football mouthguard, etc. etc. So, BobD, looks like there's another piece to the puzzle (if I've heard about arguments on what type of ligature/key plating is better for tone, I can't imagine what will happen when word gets out about a coffee cup lip-guard! I wonder if I'll be better should I have used a medium instead of a small . . . or perhaps called it a 'grande'!)
Matt,
perhaps try something that is hard instead of soft wax. So instead of adding more 'bottom lip' between the teeth and yours (meaning adding more cushioning), you'd use something hard and be 'extending' your teeth (meaning the same amount of cushion between reed and a hard surface)
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
Post Edited (2005-01-18 14:18)
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Author: rc_clarinetlady
Date: 2005-01-18 14:18
I have tried several different things to keep my lower lip from turning into "hamburger" when I practice for hours at a time. I finally tried the "Lip-Ease" from the online ordering places and I like it.
I worked for a dentist for 12 years though, and want to talk to him about a permanent piece to use. I think John Moses uses one. He has it on his list of equipment that was specially made for him by his dentist. I'd like to know more. Until then........maybe I'll find a coffee lid to try too. I don't drink coffee though, soooo... Maybe a donut and then a quick visit to where they keep the coffee lids.
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2005-01-18 15:05
Hi rc_clarinetlady and all:
Yes, I have been using a "dental appliance" for years. It was made for me by me by my Dentist here in NJ. The plastic material is very thin (thinner than folded cigarette paper), so you don't feel anything different in your mouth, except that your lower lip is protected from your sharp bottom teeth. I play 6-8 hours a day, 5-7 days a week, and have been doing that for a long time, so I needed some help with the lower lip thing.
The "dental appliance" cost about $60 to have made properly by a good dentist. He takes a dental mold of you bottom teeth, then makes a cast from the mold (like an orthodontist does for braces), and applies the very fine plastic material to the mold that is the exact shape of your teeth. It works like a charm, and fits perfectly. At the same time, he can make multiple copies for you to keep as spares. The material is easy to keep clean, and is transparent, so it's not noticeable to anyone else.
Many of my students here in NYC use the "dental appliance, " and some of the best players here use them from time to time.
For more information, have your Dentist call my Dentist at:
Dr. Harris Levine
201-592-1066
Or make an appointment with him if you're in the area.
Good luck,
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2005-01-18 17:13
Keith Stein had a similar appliance made of gold, which he showed me many years ago. I'm not sure how metal would be better than teeth, other than perhaps covering any unevenness.
John - do you remember this?
Ken Shaw
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2005-01-18 18:52
Yes, Ken, I remember Keith Stein showing his "appliance" to me at lessons at Interlochen. It was a bit garish, but very useful for him.
I based my idea of the clear, plastic "appliance" on his gold one.
His was very impressive, mine is invisible...times have changed!
Be well,
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
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Author: bob49t
Date: 2005-01-19 00:06
John,
What you are describing is a simple vaccuum formed retainer in small sectional form. These little appliances are made and used by we dentists to retain teeth which have been actively moved eg in orthodontic therapy, or to stabilise mobile teeth (either in people whose bone support has been lost or where some traumatic incident has loosened the teeth .
Over 10 yrs ago, I made these clear "buffers" (covering the lower four incisors) for my quartet who would not do without them. I have used this form of "safe sax" for a long time and it's especially useful when (like this week), I'm playing 5 different single reeds in one show "A Chorus Line" The difference in "pressure" is mitigated beautifully.
RT
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Author: Carol Dutcher
Date: 2005-01-19 00:19
I had a lower inside lip that also turned into hamburger. I asked my dentist to file down the sharp places on my lower teeth, which he did, free of charge. It has helped considerably.
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Author: Orlando Natty
Date: 2005-01-22 17:01
A small piece of water soaked cotton. When I used to play a lot in college I would take a small piece of cotton, usually about half of a cotton ball, wet it thoroughly with water then stick it on my bottom teeth. If you suck most of the water out while the cotton is on your teeth, it will form to the shape of your teeth. I have a bite that doesn't meet evenly so my bottom teeth never wore down and are very sharp.
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Author: RAMman
Date: 2005-01-22 19:15
Frank said...
Years ago I had a very sore, torn up interior of my bottom lip all the time when I played. The solution? I developed a proper embouchure and voila... no more sore, torn up bottom lip! Strengthen your lips and don't bite. Don't use reeds that are too hard. A good way to tell if you are biting too hard is if you bite through the mouthpiece patch (assuming you use one) and you seem to have to replace them often.
It's always better to permanently fix the problem than just treat the symptom.
>>>
Pain in your mouth of this sort has nothing to do with the quality of your embouchure. I have an embouchure that I've been happy with for years, and know some truly stunning players who make beautiful sounds that also have this problem.
It may have been a happy side effect that your problems vanished when your embouchure improved, but nothing more than a side effect.
Personally, I have no problem with good old fashioned cigarette papers Alexi...although chamois works well. I hate coffee so won't be trying your method any time soon!! lol
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-01-22 22:03
If you have sharp lower teeth no amount of embouchure improvement is going to prevent abrasion to the inside of your lower lip area.....my opinion.
Get a proper guard.
Bob Draznik
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Author: coaster14
Date: 2005-02-08 01:27
the dental appliance some are refering to is most likely a 'bleaching' tray. Very simply made. An impression is made of your teeth and the tray/guard is then custom made to your teeth. Tray is a very thin clear material. If you let them know it's not for bleaching it may not cost you that much. Someone in my section uses one and loves it.
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Author: MisiMcG
Date: 2005-02-13 02:29
I have in the past had students use teflon pipe tape on their teeth for various reasons - it provides some cushioning and a smooth surface without much bulk and is EXTREMELY inexpensive (about 99cents per roll in the plumbing department at your local hardware store). Just fold the tape in half and place it over the teeth. Also works great to keep braces from cutting into players' lip.
Misi
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Author: VermontJM
Date: 2005-02-13 03:59
I tend to use paper (but have been looking for something better) when I play Eb for any amount of time- especially one of the last concerts we did that had a bunch of Sousa marches- those high notes kill me. I know that I shouldn't bite so hard but it's a bad habit- and I can't find another way to get out those high high notes.
I have recently started to play bass in hopes of it relaxing the biting habit. So far, so good.
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Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-02-14 19:58
John stackpole wrote:
>>>Frank, one posting back, mentions a "mouthpiece patch"
Whazat?
a mouthpiece patch is a piece of plastic material that is sticky on one side. You stick it on your mouthpiece to protect it from wear and tear... the top teeth are just as bad as the bottom teeth, except the top ones can wear down your MP and give it permanant teeth indentations.
I believe it's also useful for people who have trouble getting a good grip on the MP- it makes the surface less slippery.
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Author: John Stackpole
Date: 2005-02-14 20:11
Ah, thank you...
Turns out I have on in place on my mouthpiece! (My teach put it there many years ago...)
It is also known as a tire patch. (Or "tyre" for UK folks.)
For the lower teeth: As mentioned before a little piece of foam did it for me. It was just packaging material protecting who knows what that came in the mail.
JDS
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Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-02-16 22:14
I have a question for those of you who have gotten the tooth mold-guard thing: how much did it cost you? I talked to my dentist about it today and he said it'd cost me $50. Just wondering if that's a good price or way too expensive. thanks.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-02-16 22:35
Music_is_life,
That's what JJM paid. And he is a textbook example of the professional musician.
AFter all the examples here, I'm thinking that if something fits over your teeth, under your lip, and won't cause you any physical damage, it'll work as a tooth guard. It all depends on how neat and what density you want that warrants your final choice.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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