 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: jArius
Date: 2005-01-31 07:47
Call me ignorant, but what are these Rose Etudes everybody keeps talking about? They sound really interesting, but I have no idea what they are or where to find them or anything.
And while we're on the subject, how do you pronounce the word "etude"? Just curious
Jeremy Bruins
Proud member of the too-much-time-on-my-hands club.
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Author: VermontJM
Date: 2005-01-31 10:27
Call up any decent music store and they can get the Rose etudes for you. They come in two different sets- one of 32 and one of 40. I think the 40 is often broken into two editions- 20 in each.
Etude is pronounced ay-tood It is French for "study"
Good luck!
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2005-01-31 11:18
I pronounce it "Etch-yude" but I'm aussie, so...
__________________
Don't hate me because I play Leblanc! ![[down]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley23.gif) Buffet
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Author: MGarrison
Date: 2005-01-31 15:18
Quite often they are studied as part of the Grade exams. I suggest you check to see which edition is being used (if you plan on taking exams) so that you have the right one.
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Author: dummer musiker
Date: 2005-01-31 16:37
Rose 32 etudes are really fun and they cover all kinds of issues! I use them in my lessons very week! :-)
"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."
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Author: earlthomas
Date: 2005-01-31 17:38
The Southern Music edition is quite good and thorough with some Caprices added by David Hite.
There are editions by Carl Fischer which have been around for a long time: two books of the Forty Studies and one book of the 32. There is a Leduc publication of those also, plus an edition of the 26. The 26 are quite nice, and they're not in the Hite/Southern. Yet, they''re quite valueable and worth the extra imported investment . Then there's Uhl, Polatschek 12 and Advanced, Zitek, Perier, Baermann, Sarlit, Stark, etc., etc, and quite a few more.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-01-31 17:55
The Carl Fischer edition of the Rose 32 is marred by misprints, typographical errors and bad page turns. It is an annoying edition to use and correct. After almost 100 years (I think the first Carl Fischer edition was 1913) the same mistakes still remain.
Buy the Hite edition of the Rose 32. Although David Hite's editions of the 32 (and 40) almost border on being over-edited, the misprints have now been corrected. Bad page turns have been fixed and the visual layout is meticulous...GBK
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Author: Avie
Date: 2005-01-31 21:26
I find some of the Rose etudes are beautiful when they are played musically and not so much as exercise studies. Some of the etudes are portions of the greatest symphonies written. It is said to be an important part of a clarinet students education.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-01-31 21:36
avumba wrote:
> Some of
> the etudes are portions of the greatest symphonies written.
Which symphonies???
Please explain...GBK
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Author: Avie
Date: 2005-01-31 22:48
Maybe you can explain it better than I GBK. I thought it was a well known fact but please enlighten us if Im wrong. Thanks.
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Author: Avie
Date: 2005-01-31 23:41
GBK. In Paul Jean Jeans book on 18 etudes, in the Foreward it reads "............"rythmic figures found in the symphonc works by the "Modernists". Also" ............"music as played in present day Symphony Orchestras." I thought knowing that etudes are derived from Symphonies would possibly inspire a Clarinet student who is about to begin playing etudes.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-02-01 01:19
The actual quote in the Forward of the Jeanjean 18 Studies reads:
"...they prepare the clarinetist to read and execute various odd melodic chord formations and intricate rhythmic figures found in the symphonic works by the "Modernists"... (the Forward was written in 1928 - hence the term "Modernists")
They are not, as you previously wrote: "portions of the greatest symphonies."
As for the Rose etudes, they are NOT based upon or taken from any symphonies. Your posting implied that they were.
There ARE etude books which have studies specifically based on the symphonic repertoire. Two books which immediately come to mind are the Polatschek Advanced Studies and (my personal favorite) New Studies for Clarinet by Louis DeSantis...GBK
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Author: Burt
Date: 2005-02-01 01:30
There is a piano accompaniment to the 32 Etudes, which makes the collection a lot of fun to play. The CD is published by Carl Fischer (WF5CD), available locally or www.carlfischer.com. There's also sheet music for the accompaniment, but I don't know where to find it.
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Author: earlthomas
Date: 2005-02-01 01:54
To be sure, the Carl Fischer editions have some mis-prints, including the venerable Baermann 3rd Division (and they've all been there for nealy a century). The Leduc Rose editions are probably the most authentic while the Hite/Southern Music Co. editions are superb and carefully compiled. The only thing about them is that they do not include the Rose 26, but those "26" are available in the Leduc edition, which may also have a mis-print or two. Mis-print or not, we all gained a great deal from studying Rose etudes. Rose did so much during his time at the Conservatoire, including remarkable editions of Weber's Concertino and Opus 74 Concerto in E-flat Major, to name just a couple (all available in Leduc editions). While your shopping in France,(get used to those long lunch hours) you might enjoy the great G.Hamelin's "Gammes et Exercices" - a great aid at homogenusness (sp?) throughout the entire range of the clainet, and one of the few scale books with "harmonic" minor (no melodic minor in Hamelin) and a strong case for the "sur la table" approach to fingering E-flat/B-flat first finger (left-hand) over 1st or 2nd finger (right-hand), with a handy remark about not resting on the tonic with either of those fingerings, due to "sensitivity".
Speaking of Hite's editing, Southern Music has quite a listing of David's fine pedatogical offerings. You might want to check them out, as, I'm sure, all will agree, Mr. Hite gave all of us quite a valueable body of work for teaching and study for many generations to come.
Happy days,
ET
Post Edited (2005-02-01 01:59)
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Author: jArius
Date: 2005-02-01 03:31
Aaahhhh, information overload! So in a nutshell, which one do you suggest a college hopeful should get?
Jeremy Bruins
Proud member of the too-much-time-on-my-hands club.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2005-02-01 03:43
i'd suggest if you dont have a copy of the Rose' etudes you need to get one - get the Hite (southen) version ; and start working through them.
should be required study for all clarinet students imnsho.
Artistic Studies Book 1 From the French School, for Clarinet Edited by David Hite - Southern Music B362 $12.50 when i bought my last copy.
If you're not quite up to that level yet, Melodious & Progressive Studies, Books 1 and 2 , also by Hite & Southern Music are excellent preludes to the Rose studies
-paul
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
Post Edited (2005-02-01 03:44)
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-02-01 04:34
jArius said:
> Aaahhhh, information overload! So in a nutshell,
> which one do you suggest a college hopeful should get?
The Rose 40 are considered the primer to the Rose 32 ...GBK
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2005-02-01 11:33
Hi,
Three other books that are very nice include:
1. The Kroepsch Studies (I like Book 4 a lot)
2. The J. Muller 21 Etuden (there are a couple of places where the Full Boehm clarinet is needed for the low Eb as I recall) and
3. The Selected Studies by Voxman (etudes that get really hard, scales, broken scales, and arpeggios) which is readily available from Rubank.
I will often practice flute books (not Progressive and Melodius as they are just too hard for me) on clarinet. You'll get a real upper register and across the break workout. On sax, the Rose Etudes (with some 8va changes) are a lot of fun.
With any book, sometimes you need to skip around (like OK, this is my sharp key week and next week will be...).
HRL
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Author: jArius
Date: 2005-02-02 03:58
GBK wrote:
>
>
> The Rose 40 are considered the primer to the Rose 32 ...GBK
So you're saying it would be best to get the 40 first? Also, how challenging would you say each one is on a school grade basis? You know, high-school junior or grad student... so on (assuming average skill level for the grade). If there's another scale to measure difficulty I'm not aware of it.
Jeremy Bruins
Proud member of the too-much-time-on-my-hands club.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2005-02-02 04:08
the southern music version we mentioned has both the 40 and the 32 and some other items.
they are used here (texas) for all region/area/state auditions. i usually start high school freshmen on them (the better ones anyway). they vary in difficulty level.
get the book and start in on page one...
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: jArius
Date: 2005-02-02 04:15
thx for the quick response. I'll check it out. BTW, do you know of any online stores that sell it? That's really the only practical option for me.
Jeremy Bruins
Proud member of the too-much-time-on-my-hands club.
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Author: jArius
Date: 2005-02-02 04:55
pewd wrote:
> Artistic Studies Book 1 From the French School, for Clarinet
> Edited by David Hite - Southern Music B362 $12.50 when i
> bought my last copy.
So that's just another name for the rose etudes, or is it a completely different book altogether?
Jeremy Bruins
Proud member of the too-much-time-on-my-hands club.
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Author: susieray
Date: 2005-02-02 05:41
> Artistic Studies Book 1 From the French School, for Clarinet
> Edited by David Hite
There are other versions of the Rose Etudes, but this book has both the 40 and the 32 plus 9 caprices. Gary Van Cott also carries it (catalog #C093):
http://www.vcisinc.com/clarinetmusicstudies.htm
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Author: jArius
Date: 2005-02-02 15:19
Thanks for your help, and as soon as I have the money I will order the southern version.
Wow, it's amazing how helpful the people on this BB are!
Jeremy Bruins
Proud member of the too-much-time-on-my-hands club.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-02-02 15:32
Strong suggestion to go with Hite's Artistic Studies Book 1 which are the Rose Etudes published by Southern. Tremendous collection for about $12.
If you haven't played etudes yet you really should be playing the Hite Melodious / Progressive studies book 1 and 2 which lead into the Rose. (Southern publisher)
Another standard are the Baermann studies which some are in the Melodious/prog. book and there is a great play along of it that John Cipolla made for Music Minus One titled "The Virtuoso Clarinetist"
http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/a/item.html?id=14420&item=3363057
really good as he plays the etudes as well as you can have the piano part only. If you want to customise the tempos - write me.
blummy@(nospam)comcast.net
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2005-02-07 10:08
GBK wrote:
The Carl Fischer edition of the Rose 32 is marred by misprints, typographical errors and bad page turns. It is an annoying edition to use and correct. After almost 100 years (I think the first Carl Fischer edition was 1913) the same mistakes still remain.
I have the Carl Fischer edition published in 2002. The etudes are printed one to a page, so there are no "bad page turns" at all. (Unless you are referring to the two accompanied etudes at the back of the book.) Do you stand by your other criticisms of Fischer in respect of this edition?
-----------
If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-02-07 13:20
Etude #16 (#15 in other editions) used to be divided on 2 pages.
BTW - did they ever correct the time signature of #20 to 3/8 instead of their printed 3/4?...GBK
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-02-07 13:41
It is corrected (just now looked at it - JW Pepper was offering a $30 combo of Rose and about 5 other books w/ the Rose Accomps too). The new Fischer edition was edited by Melvin Warner.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-02-07 13:43
DavidBlumberg wrote:
> It is corrected (just now looked at it
 It only took them 90+ years to do so...GBK
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-02-07 13:48
btw - the etudes based on the orchestral material are all technical etudes. They are significantly easier than the Polatchek.
I really like the Kroepsch Studies book 1 (the Klose book has book 2 of that in it I believe) as a basic book of technical studies too. Galper took many (most) of the Kroepsch studies in his book and converted them to 8th notes for easier and less intimidating reading. They are meant to be played both quickly and slowly for tone control as well as note balance over various octaves.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-02-07 13:56
In the Opperman Fingering book is a very good source of fingerings and not only the upper notes - good resonance choices.
It is a really good book - great lay out and quite extensive. Tom's book is still to me the "bible of fingerings", but the Opperman is certainly worth having also and is around $10.
Post Edited (2005-02-07 20:53)
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2005-02-07 18:45
The Kroespch books are very finely done and really give you a way to develop speed and dexterity without hurting you. They also serve as a wonderful way of warming up apart from scales and studies...I tend to feel the Rose are some way stressed too much...they are good but at times not very meaty!
Symphony NB
David Dow
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Author: larryb
Date: 2005-02-07 19:15
Where would you guys place the Cavallini Caprices in this august rose-baermann-kroepsch-opperman axis of etudes/warm ups?
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2005-02-07 19:20
Dear Larry B
I think the professional players tend to use the Opperman and Kroepsch far more than the Rose and /Baresrman material...I also find the Rose 40 studies to more interesting technically for more advanced students.
David Dow
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-02-07 20:30
The Baermann get tiring pretty quickly as they mostly sound the same. Lots of Germanic ommpaommpa yodeling. It's cool at first but gets pretty old after about 10-15 etudes.
The Cavallini are very good also. At least he composed his - the Rose were taken from Violin Etudes.
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Author: Tom Piercy
Date: 2005-02-07 20:38
David Blumberg wrote:
"In the Opperman Fingering book there is a very glaring error on throat Ab (if I recall - it was identical to another fingering nearby but I don't remember which one right now). Fischer publishes that one too - I wonder when they will fix that one?"
Which throat Ab fingering are you referring to as a glaring error?
Tom Piercy
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-02-07 20:52
Tom, I just looked it up - it was an open G fingering which I had thought was wrong. Just tried it and it works. I'll edit my posting (it was a G fingering with the G# key depressed, the 3 LH fingers, and the first 1 of the right hand.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-02-07 21:05
Bonade used the Rose 40 and Rose 32 as the foundation of his teaching. He said (and I'm paraphrasing) that those books contained 90% of the preparation one would need to be an orchestral player.
The order of his teaching syllabus was:
Rose 40
Rose 32
Rose-Rode 20 Grand Studies
Stark Arpeggios
Baermann IV
Baermann V
Cavallini 30 Caprices
Stark 24 Studies
Jeanjean 18 Etudes
Jeanjean 16 Etudes Moderne
Stark 24 Grand Virtuoso Studies (two books)
Capelle 20 Grandes Etudes (two books)
Perier 20 Etudes de Virtuosite
Perier 22 Etudes Modernes
Perier 30 Etudes d'Apres Bach, Paganini
Jeanjean Etudes Progressives et Melodiques (three books)
...GBK
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Author: Tom Piercy
Date: 2005-02-07 21:07
Thanks for checking David. Glad that fingering worked for you.
Disclosure:
I helped work on this book and submitted some of the fingerings.
Kal and I worked out the fingerings using his Buffet, my Buffet and my Rossi large bore. We know that not all fingerings work on all clarinets, but we tried very hard to make sure they would work on a variety of set ups.
Tom
www.thomaspiercy.com
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Author: John Walker
Date: 2005-02-12 23:23
Carl Fischer is working on the printed score for the accompaniments (mine) to the Rose 32 Etudes, but there is no release date yet. Hopefully they will come out before the end of summer.
Dr. John M. Walker
Director of Keyboard Studies
South Dakota State University
Brookings, SD 57007
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Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-02-23 15:42
"The Carl Fischer edition of the Rose 32 is marred by misprints, typographical errors and bad page turns. It is an annoying edition to use and correct. After almost 100 years (I think the first Carl Fischer edition was 1913) the same mistakes still remain."
is there any place I can find out what those misprints are, becuase I have that book and don't want to play it incorrectly! (Carl Fischer's work is quite inconsistent, isn't it?)
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-02-23 16:28
music_is_life wrote:
> is there any place I can find out what those misprints are,
> becuase I have that book and don't want to play it incorrectly!
The old 1913 Carl Fischer version of the Rose 32 is a mess. It has been reprinted so many times that the notes from the original plates (which probably weren't great to begin with) have become blurry, smudged and in some cases almost unreadable. At times, the lines of the staff completely disappear. The poorly thought out spacing and visual layout by today's standards is unacceptable.
The same mistakes and typos have been reprinted for almost 100 years. It is an annoying edition to play out of, to fix, and teach from. It is clearly a case of "you get what you paid for."
If you want to torture yourself and use the older Carl Fischer edition, most of the errors and inconsistancies in notation are painfully obvious and don't need listing. There are too many to count and not worth the effort involved.
> (Carl Fischer's work is quite inconsistent, isn't it?)
No more or less than other publishing houses.
Carl Fischer now has published a "revised and corrected" edition of the Rose 32 by Melvin Warner. There is no comparison between it and the older 1913 version which in my opinion should now be permanently discontinued. This is the one to have if you want a Carl Fischer publication of the Rose 32. It does differ slightly from the Hite edition, which suffers at times being over-edited.
However, both are fine in their own way and are certainly worth having in your personal library.
Now if only all 3 editions could agree on the first note in measure 8 of Etude #27
...GBK
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