 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bigno16
Date: 2005-01-26 20:09
I've seen a lot of people wet the heel of their reed in addition to the rest of it. I've also seen a lot of people who don't wet the heel of their reed.
Does it make a difference? What's the purpose of it?
Someone told me they wet it because of the pores in the heel.
Maybe I've been blessed with a bunch of good reeds lately, but as I have been wetting the heel, they all seem to be playing a little better, even more vibrantly. But it's probably just a coincidence.
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Author: rhagen2
Date: 2005-01-26 20:29
Hello there-
I soak up to 10 reeds at once... the whole reed, in lukewarm water, for 2-5 minutes before I play... I had never heard of it until about 2 years ago, but once I started I can't stop! To me, it seems to help the reed stay moist, not drying out even when I'm resting for many bars at once. I guess it's a personal choice... good luck!
Much Love,
Rachel
Music washes away from the soul the dust of everyday life.
-Red Auerbach
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Author: poopsie
Date: 2005-01-26 23:17
I dunno, it seems that I always have my reeds too moist, even without soaking them in water. Hmmm. I suppose the mystery will never be solved.
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Author: Topher
Date: 2005-01-26 23:21
I wet the heel of the reed myself, and I do it because an old teacher says it will keep the reed from drying out. Basically, when the tip is wet, the entire reed tries to reach a state of equilibrium of moisture. That means the moisture from the tip is drawn to the heel, drying the reed out during early warm-up stages of playing. If you wet the heel of the reed, it will be closer to a state of equilibrium, and there will be less drying in the tip of the reed. This is a moot point, however, if you plan on warming up for fifteen minutes and then playing for an extended period of time. A few hours will dry out the exposed parts of the reed no matter how much you sucked on the heel or tip of that reed.
topher
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-01-27 16:23
Nice discourse, Topher, you covered it quite well. I pay as much attention to saliva soaking the heel of the reed as the other end and I belong to the tribe that doesn't believe in water soaking.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Bigno16
Date: 2005-01-27 16:50
Topher wrote:
>"This is a moot point, however, if you plan on warming up for fifteen >minutes and then playing for an extended period of time. A few hours will >dry out the exposed parts of the reed no matter how much you sucked on >the heel or tip of that reed."
But it would be less likely to dry out as much if I wet it more often, wouldn't it? Or would that just risk it getting waterlogged?
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Author: Topher
Date: 2005-01-27 20:16
If you wet the whole reed more often, you will not need to concern yourself with it drying out as much. Waterlogging, however, is inevitable after a few hours of playing, and if wetting the heel speeds the processes up, it is by a small enough ammount that my teacher and I don't concern ourselves with it.
topher
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Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-02-15 16:21
i wet the heel of the reed. my clar teacher told me too, but I can't remember why. I just always do it. last year I used to soak my reeds in water (for long periods of time...like 45 minutes +) and told my friend about it, and he tried and ended up with moldy reeds, and I got a stern "talking-to" about what I did to my reeds and about the shoddy advice I had given out.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-02-15 19:18
I do feel that wetting the entire heel area helps to produce the proper bond of the clarinet to the mouthpiece......which then results in the best reed performance.
Bob Draznik
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Author: rc_clarinetlady
Date: 2005-02-16 05:29
I was always taught that the reed is made up of long, porous straw like tubes and needs to be wet all the way down in order to vibrate evenly when played.
I have always wet the entire reed and if for some reason I run short on time and don't....I can tell in the the way the reed plays or rather doesn't play. I soak new reeds for 10-15 minutes but no more than that. After that it's only about a 5 minute soaking and then play.
Rebecca
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Author: stebinus
Date: 2005-02-16 10:14
To give the contrary viewpoint, for years I have wet vamp only and briefly with water only and have had many successful extended solo performances. I never soak w saliva and always rinse and wipe reeds after playing. Always thought they lasted longer that way but not sure since it's been so long since I did it the other way. I think saliva has sticky stuff and acid in it which shortens reed life.
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Author: Matt Locker
Date: 2005-02-16 11:48
Interesting discussion......
I always thought the plan was to minimize internal wetting of the wood fibers. This is why people seal the pores by rubbing.
Comments?
Thanks,
Matt
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-02-16 11:54
I do believe there is rather extensive info on reed structure here via search.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Matt Locker
Date: 2005-02-16 14:13
Bob:
I think this is really interesting in that there appears to be 2 schools of thought here. One says wet the reed throughout, the other says the intent is to keep the internals of the reed dry. I think I would fall into the first camp but only because I haven't really tried a thoroughly wetted reed except as a result of playing and then I don't like it.
I do like your idea of wetting the heel to promote a better seal. I'll definitely try that.
MOO,
Matt
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Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-02-16 15:05
my experience is that playing a dry reed is bad. I find that it plays better when wet throughout. sometimes wetting just the tip will suffice, but I believe that for prolonged periods of time the heel should be wetted.
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Author: coasten1
Date: 2005-02-16 15:16
Establish a new norm. We should do away with cane reeds and all play on plastic. lol
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2005-02-16 15:19
I'm not going to claim enough expertise to tell anyone what is the right way to do it. At this point, I figure that one should do whatever works best for him/her. It should be easy enough to experiment and see what you like.
That being said, I want to throw another monkey wrench into the works and then look at this from a theoretical/physical standpoint.
When I practice my bass clarinet, I frequently leave it set up knowing that I'll come back later to toot on it some more. After leaving it for a couple of hours and presumably letting the reed dry out, I pick it up and start playing with no new wetting and find that the reed sounds as good or better than it did before.
Now, here's my theory. When reeds are partially wet they frequently warp, if even just a small bit, which definitely affects playability. When they are fully wet or fully dry (and at equilibrium) they are flatter (physically, not musically) and play better. The presence of moisture in the fibers likely affects the stiffness of the reed and the other factors that determine how it vibrates, so, for any one of us, a given reed may perform in our opinions better when it is in one of those states -- wet or dry.
So, why bother wetting them? I expect it is because once we start playing on a dry reed, it will start absorbing moisture, changing its playing characteristics over time and possibly going through a stage where the moisture is unevenly distributed along the width of the reed and the reed becomes temporarily warped. (This happens because the tubes in the reed are not perfectly uniform, with the capillary effect causing the narrower ones to absorb moisture faster.) Because we want a reed to be consistent, it is preferable to start out with it at equilibrium (i.e., where it is no longer changing), which in this case means all fibers are wetted. Thus, we wet or soak our reeds before playing them.
As far as wetting the heel, I would not expect it to be necessary for the reed to play, as the vamp is the part that vibrates and needs to be at equilibrium for optimal playability. I can also see where wetting the heel would help keep the vamp moist, especially in conditions where it might have opportunities to dry out, such as during extended periods of not being played. So, sometimes it may be better to do so; at others it may not make much of a difference.
But, note that mold and bacteria thrive in warm, moist, organic environments, so soaking an entire reed may promote their growth.
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Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-02-16 15:19
> Establish a new norm. We should do away with cane reeds and
> all play on plastic. lol
...or metal... would give a whole new meaning to "pain"
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Author: Matt Locker
Date: 2005-02-16 16:04
I suspect that the reality is that there will always be some wetting of the reed ( if a normal cane reed). The warpage occurs as it gets wetted non-consistently. Once the tip has been consistently wetted and the warpage flattens, ideally the remainder of the reed stays dry. Why would a person want the remainder of the reed to be wetted?
I'm also guessing that's one advantage of the synthetic reeds is that the reed doesn't absorb water and therefore always plays consistently as long as the material characteristics aren't changing due to usage (wear) or damage. That doesn't mean better BTW only consistent. I've never played a synthetic reed so I don't know anything about them.
MOO,
Matt
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Author: Keith Ferguson
Date: 2005-02-16 16:33
As a slight variation on the "wet the heel" school of thought, my instructor recommends sealing the heels with clear nail polish at the time you open a new box. I've been following the advice but couldn't say I've noticed any change in a reed's behaviour.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-02-17 12:48
If you wet the tip area with colored water and watch the heel end you will eventually see the color has migrated there. If you seal the heel end you eliminate one path of escape and the reed will become "waterlogged" sooner. If you seal the entire reed you have created a "plastic" reed.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2005-02-17 17:46
Don Poulson wrote:
"...because once we start playing on a dry reed, it will start absorbing moisture, changing its playing characteristics over time and possibly going through a stage where the moisture is unevenly distributed along the width of the reed and the reed becomes temporarily warped. (This happens because the tubes in the reed are not perfectly uniform, with the capillary effect causing the narrower ones to absorb moisture faster.)"
What caught my eye about the above statement was the part about the tubes not being perfectly uniform with the narrower ones absorbing moisture faster.
I have observed this by using the following technique: before I became converted to the Legere reed, I used to wet my cane reeds by placing the reeds around the sides of a short glass with just enough water in it to cover the vamp area.
I became particularly interested as to how the butt ends were giving visual signs of being wetted by the capillary action. If I remember correctly, the ends of the Rico Royals would get completely wet fairly fast while the Vandorens and some others would take a long time before the ends showed signs of moisture. I also noticed that some reeds would only show end moisture on half of the reed while the other side would either remain dry or would take 3 to 5 times longer for them to get wet. So, to me, this appears to be a fairly good test to determine the difference in the tubes across the width of a cane reed.
Now my question is: if a player determines that the tubes on one half are very small by observing a quick wettness at the butt end while the other side had much larger tubes, would this reed exhibit adverse playing tendencies and if so, would this wetting test be effective in discovering a poor playing cane reed?
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2005-02-17 20:45
This is a very popular topic. Here's my take. ... Water logged reeds work very well. Put 3 or four reeds in water and let them sit for a week. I guess they are water logged when they sink to the bottom. Never the less let them soak for a week or two....try them.. they should be fine. I tried this constant soaking of clarinet reeds for about 4 months.The reeds are in water all the time except when you play them. Don't let them dry out!....severe warping. It was in Winter season in dry humidity. The reeds do become brittle....You might expect they would be rubbery.....but not the case...they snap very easily after all this soaking. I stopped using this method as it was high maintenance...you have tupperware containers with tops that don't leak.....you might have to change the water occcasionally as reeds are leaching stuff...I put some hydrogen chloride in there to keep the germs away. ........I tried this system to see if reeds would be more stable and warp less.. I think that was the case. Unscientifically....I think that it is more the drying out process that is dangerous with reeds.. Ever notice the first time you soak a reed....the tip never curls..... but on the subsequent uses the tip does curl. When the tip dries out...that shrinkage never comes back to the original state. My suggestion is to keep the very tip part of the reed moist.....in storage... if not moist then use a humidifier so it doesn't dry out excesssively.
Freelance woodwind performer
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