 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: claclaws
Date: 2005-01-15 07:12
Sorry for a potentially gossipy posting. And probably more to lady boarders' interest, I think. [edit: survived the censureship ^^]
It's only that I found an ad about Mr.Stoltzman's ensemble concerto that will be held one week after his solo concerto here. In that ensemble, his wife and violinist Lucy will perform, according to the preview article. I never knew he was married to a musician.
I personally know several clarinetists, including my former teacher, who are married to musicians - clarinetists, pianists, etc. Mrs James Galway is a flutist, I heard. As in many other fields, there must be countless musician couples. What are the good points and bad? Of course, that's not my business, and all couples have their own good and bad moments..but just for the sake of fun discussion, here are what I think.
1) Good
- companions who understand each other deeply
- practice together, make music together
2) Bad
- competition: one can be jealous about the other..?
- money: until BOTH can earn enough..? Still, musician or no musician, you can't ignore that money matters especially when kids come along. So marrying a financially stable spouse and expand one's music potential would not be a bad idea. If the spouse understands the music, even better.
- possible disagreements about music (in terms of performance, interpretation, etc)
Any observation?
Lucy Lee Jang
Post Edited (2005-01-16 12:37)
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-01-15 12:36
There are musician couples which get along and do fine if they are succesful.
But I think that the divorce rate among musicians is higher than the national average. I don't know many musicians who aren't divorced or on their 2nd marriage, etc.
A good observation would be the divorce rate among musician couples versus 1 musician 1 not couples.
I would think that the 2 musician couples would be closer or below the national average whereas the 1/1 would be higher.
Anyone know?
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Author: mnorswor
Date: 2005-01-15 13:55
I ended up marrying a chef myself. Everyone always mentioned being a starving artist, seemed like a really good idea to marry someone who could feed me!!!
On the Stoltzman note, Richard and Lucy love each other VERY much and they work a lot together. They enjoy working together, cooking together, and doing just about anything together. Their connection goes much beyond music and the stage. They're wonderful people individually and a wonderful couple.
For what it's worth,
Michael
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Author: William
Date: 2005-01-15 14:19
Being married to a none musician does wonders for my ego. No matter what I play, it is always, "that sounded nice, honey".
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Author: Clarinetlover18
Date: 2005-01-15 14:31
I myself am a clarinetist and I am dating a guy who play clarinet as well. We are both stdents in college and have been dating for awhile, but we both get along great! Both of us are music education majors and we get along great! My former private teacher from high school married his wife who was the same major and same instrument, and their relationship is beautiful to watch! I think it can work either way! But I personally love dating somone in the same field, especially the same instrument!
~Carla~
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Author: ron b
Date: 2005-01-15 16:26
My wife plays 'cello. We ocassionally play together and, in spite of that, we've been together almost forty years. We've been asked to play again this year at an annual (church) Valentine's banquet - piano, 'cello, clarinet. Either they didn't have too many complaints from last time or they couldn't find another instrumental music couple to provide the background music. (Kidding, of course  )
There'll be another couple or two doing 'special' numbers for this event as well and it's always a nice affair when lots of young and old couples get together like that.
Although my retirement hobby-turned-small-business is instrument repair, our livlihood-jobs have not been music related. We play for the fun of it and (maybe) that's why we get along so well.
- r![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif) n b -
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Author: msloss
Date: 2005-01-15 18:06
Two successful musicians is not always a recipe for success, particularly in the orchestral environment. If you land in the same great ensemble (a la Larry Combs and Gail Williams), terrific. But, what if Mr. Musician earns a post in the NY Phil and Mrs. Musician wins a job in San Francisco? I know more than a few unhappy situations where this has been the case, even worse, with kids. Do you live a fragmented life, or does one subordinate the career to the other?
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2005-01-15 18:15
If you are a musician, you shouldn't get married....http://www.theinternetcollege.org/57.htm...because you will lose your creativity. Though it seems this only applies to male musicians.
Please note that I do not vouch for the accuracy of the information in this link.
-----------
If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: John O'Janpa
Date: 2005-01-15 19:26
In the wind symphony I play in, a female college student, and a male student are contemplating a same sax marriage. (They both play Selmer 80 altos.)
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-01-15 19:28
David Peacham wrote:
> Please note that I do not vouch for the accuracy of the
> information in this link.
Some of it needs a heck of a lot more explanation (there might me a lot of jumping to cause without control). If I remember my reading correctly, scientific creativity, as measured by new papers, peaks in the younger years (indeed, mathematicians over 25 or 26 are often considered "over the hill"). Therefore, a scientist may get married and creativity may look to go "downhill". But, is marriage the cause? Perhaps ... perhaps not. Like everything, without some numbers the whole thing is suspect. It may be completely true - I have no idea.
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2005-01-15 20:51
Who else would understand a last minute call from the Union Hall?
Musicians tend to understand the vagaries of earning a living through art.
They may also be more tolerant of practice time.
I would not anticipate much play time together - professional musicians drive nearly as much as OTR truck drivers...
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Author: Aussiegirl
Date: 2005-01-16 05:33
As ive just turned 18 im not quite contemplating marriage yet, but i dated a tuba player for quite awhile and found that things worked out really well!
He explained aural and chord progressions to me in a way that i could actually understand, we could bitch about the dodgy band directors that we had at out respective schools, and it was nice to have somebody who could go to your recitals or hear you play and give constructive criticism...and the hugs at the stage door by somebody who undertstands what its like to do a bad performance are nice too! Plus muso guys are always so much hotter!
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Author: allencole
Date: 2005-01-16 08:33
I was very amused several years ago to hear a singer that I work with constantly complaining about being married to a full-time horn player. She had a day job and he didn't.
Both were working in the business full-time when they met, but she moved up the ladder and he remained at about the same income.
So much for understanding...
Allen Cole
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-01-16 12:30
I don't know if I'll be considering marriage as an option. I mean, I'm having WAY too much fun dating nowadays. You'd never guess how impressive the words, "I'm a classical clarinetist" goes when you're talkin' to the ladies at your local pub......
But heavy sarcasm aside, this is a very interesting topic. Can't really contribute, but I'm taking it all in. I personally don't know any musician/musician couples.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-01-16 12:49
I know a musician couple going through a divorce who have to play together.
That's got to be rough!
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Author: ken
Date: 2005-01-16 13:45
I recall reading a post by Clarinetgrammy defining her return to passionate clarinet playing as the "other husband" and recognizing the need to maintain balance in her marriage ... being married 26 years I see it the same way. A truly comitted musician (career or recreational) is essentially already married. In a practical sense, the work load, hours and daily practice grind is a "relationship" in itself (any art form versus artist is). Unless willing to strike a minimum compromise the deck is stacked high and deep against a traditional marriage; staying single should be seriously considered before inviting failure.
One loose example that comes to mind is the late pro golfer Sam Snead. He was a diehard bachelor his entire life and career. When asked why he never got married he once professed, "I'm already married and there's no room for anyone else in my bag".
I am not playing strictly for a living any longer but when I did, it by necessity placed an enormous strain on my own marriage. And, I'm convinced the only reason I'm still married is because I have a non-musician spouse who graciously and lovingly allowed me to put my career first and support me. I like a fool, would practice and gig myself straight into a divorce. I'm sure I'd even be nutty enough to blow long tones into my mouthpiece on the drive to signing the final decree. v/r Ken
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2005-01-16 16:24
Then there's my husband. After a few years of living with me, he figured out that I'd choose playing an instrument over eating, sleeping, and any number of other things usually listed on the chart of basic human needs. (Well, DUH!)
So he went out and bought himself a clarinet and is learning to play.
This is a mixed blessing, believe me. ![[rotate]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley25.gif)
Susan
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Author: clarinetwife
Date: 2005-01-16 18:39
I know a couple who both play the same instrument, and they do enjoy playing together. However, although I have certainly had no intention of prying, I gather that it could get interesting when they are interested in the same gig and only one is needed. The situation might be different if one is an orchestral player and one gigs with a band, for example.
My husband and I enjoy playing together but have generally sidestepped situations where there would be actual competition between us. Neither of us plays for a living, though. I do like being married to a musician!
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-01-16 19:48
Sounds like a good topic for Letterman's "Top Ten Reasons". Scientific Logic: "Artie Shaw was married 8 times. All women were non-musicians. Therefore, musicians should marry musicians."
Bob Draznik
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Author: Pam H.
Date: 2005-01-16 21:16
I know three couples in the amatuer orchestra that I'm involved with who are married to one another. None of them play the same instrument though. They seem to have good marriages, but only two of the individuals have teaching careers that are musical and they are not married to each other.
The couple that I'm closest with - He plays the clarinet and his wife plays the flute. Sometimes their fights are entertaining when they disagree about musical things. He sometimes enjoys a disagreement though saying that "it's fun to make up later." ;-)
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2005-01-16 22:41
My wife and I work in different orchestras in the same city. I work with the Philharmonic orchestra and she's principal flute with the Radio Symphony. We have a six year old boy and try to divide all the duties in the household equally between the two of us. We very rarely have concerts on the same evenings so babysitters are only used occasionally, mainly if we want to go out and do something together. We also try to be generous to each other about having enough time to practice and prepare. I try to make sure that she gets all the time she needs and in return she's doing the same for me.
I think that respect for each others needs is the key to make things work. We're also lucky enough to work in large orchestras so usually it's possible to work out a decent schedule with our colleagues even with respect to families. Like, in a few weeks we both would have had to be on tour at the same time, she with a chamber music production and I doing Beethoven 9 in Paris. The 9 only requires two players so I can stay at home and practice as much as I want (or doing what I want).
Alphie
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Author: Frodo
Date: 2005-01-17 01:33
>same sax marriage. (They both play Selmer 80 altos.)
Ha! Ha! Ha! That's a good one, John.
Don't know if this counts but I've only been playing the clarinet for a couple of years while my wife has been taking piano lessons for four months. We're quite supportive of each other. No major musical disagreements so far. We practice at the same time, in different rooms of course. We're planning on doing a special number for our church community next Christmas. We both have non-music related jobs.
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Author: allencole
Date: 2005-01-17 06:01
David's mention of a couple playing together while divorcing reminded me of another common pitfall in this area.
A few years ago, I knew a guy who was playing regularly with a stay-at-home wife and small child.
The wife (a singer, but not the same one that I previously mentioned) happened into a singing job better then hubby's playing job.
Hubby, home at night while wifey sings begins questioning her whereabouts and the company she's keeping if not home immediately from her gig.
Eventually, this leads to divorce--and the husband is strapped. So--the now ex-wife gets him a gig in her band. (while she takes up with a guy in my band)
This possibilities are as frightening as they are endless. I'm sure glad that Alphie chimed in to give us a little hope.
Allen Cole
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Author: rc_clarinetlady
Date: 2005-01-17 06:42
My husband is a horn player and I play clarinet. We will celebrate our 25th anniversary in May. It all started in 1974 in the high school band room when he winked at me from the horn section. 25 years and 3 kids later it's all history now. We get along great. Not just my husband and I but our kids too. They are all very talented musicians too so this is a musical household.
We didn't persue music as careers other than to teach privately so that may help some. We do play in a newly formed community orchestra that is just fantastic. It keeps us on our toes. We practice seperately but together with CD's of our works we're doing. After 25 years of marriage it's nice to have a new interest to be involved in together other than the kids. Once in awhile I get to steal a wink across the orchestra room and my heart does a flip flop just like it did some 30 years ago. AAAaaahhhhh...............memories, sweet memories. And yes, I'll settle the argument. Horn plaers do make the best kissers
Rebecca
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Author: Brenda
Date: 2005-01-17 16:18
The biggest problem with being married to a non-musician is the lack of understanding of the need for consistent practice time.
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Author: Gandalfe
Date: 2005-01-17 16:42
I met my wife in high school band 32 years ago. She played clarinet and I sax. We both love music and although it plays a major part in our lives, we stopped performing because of the rigours of parenthood, work, and such. After a 27 year hiatus I started back up on sax.
Two years later my wife started back up on clarinet, oboe, and flute, all of which she played in high school. A year later she is also learning soprano sax and violin. We are both in a community band and really enjoying it. We practice together two or three times a week plus the three hour community band session.
Our big challenge now-a-days is learning the music theory that we didn't learn in high school. My wife just keeps a circle of fifths chart in her music book. I'm trying to memorize it so that I can do a better job of improvising solos.
Our son is a music major at BYU playing sax, drums, and trumpet and his wife inherited my wife's clarinet from high school and is learning to play. Our nine-year old grandson is learning to play sax and our 1 year granddaughter dances and moves to the jazz I play when we watch her.
Jim and Suzy
Pacifica Big Band
Seattle, Washington
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Author: John Stackpole
Date: 2005-01-17 22:13
In summary (?):
All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.
-Tolstoy, Anna Karenina
JDS
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Author: diz
Date: 2005-01-18 01:50
Had several significant others in my day, one was a musician ... it was a bad mistake for several reasons (none of which I'll go into here). The rest of the others couldn't tell their "oboe from their brass" but they at least supported my music or didn't mind me serenading them.
Conclusion ... I avoid musicians as partners and prefer the diversity that an opposite brings.
(Oh, by the way, I'm not legally able to marry in Australia so "partnered to a musician ..." might have been a more encompassing subject claclaws).
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-01-18 14:32
Come to think about it, my last relationship was with a musician. A singer. So the competition wasn't strong, but certainly was there. I am a very easy-going person, and rather uncompetative (blessing/curse). However my girlfriend at the time seemed upset when I was thinking about joining the same small wedding band as her (although as a sax/clarinet player rather than singer). She did it mainly to avoid problems, but when you think about it, her view could have STARTED a problem.
Judging by replies here and the thought I've given it over these few days, it seems that I'm mostly inclined to agree with diz.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2005-01-18 16:46
My wife is a flutist. I had never had a relationship with a musician before I met her, and I am eternally thankful at how easy this makes things.
I dated a clarinetist once and it was problematic, and there were a couple of clarinetists interested in me when I was much younger, but the feeling wasn't mutual. Not telling why.
We both have jobs, in different fields. In any case, there are some important points
1) I am a lousy flutist; she is a lousy clarinetist; there is no competition thing.
2) When I have a gig, or she has lessons to teach, we both know it adds to our bottom line. Likewise, when either of us need to practice or go to a rehearsal, we know what is going on and take it in stride. No feelings of abandonment or rancor.
3) We sometimes play gigs together, but they are not mine or hers, they are our gigs. These are great. Conversely, sometimes I play for her students, or she sits in with me. Neither of us are 100% comfortable with this, but we do it anyway - it buys understanding for later use.
4) We met in a Bible study class, not at a gig or other musical event. Music was just a small part of why we were interested in each other.
Regards
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Author: john gibson
Date: 2005-01-18 19:16
married a whole bunch of years to a non-musician. I agree with Brenda....
wife doesn't understand the need for constant practice. AND unfortunately she doesn't care for the clarinet. I told her....well then....I'll just go back to rock and roll drums.......
"UH......NO !!!"
JG
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2005-01-19 03:23
My ex husband is a tuba player. That's how we met; in music school. That, however, is NOT why the marriage ended...he had an engineering degree and was unemployed AND he wanted to play poker for a living...
I don't know if I'll find another life partner. I don't know whether another musician would be best for me or not, but my best friend seems to think so. She is also a musician, and her hubby is not, and their marriage is pretty darn good. They both give each other a lot of latitude and it seems to work well.
Katrina
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Author: Mike Clarinet
Date: 2005-01-19 12:37
I am an engineer. I play solo clarinet in a community band and 1st clarinet in a clarinet quartet. My wife is a librarian. She plays bass clarinet in the same community band and 2nd clarinet in the same quartet. Other than work, we also have separate non-musical interests: I like model railways, my wife paints and makes jewellery. This means that we both understand the demands of music, which we love doing together, and also each have our own space, that the other respects and encourages, but does not intrude upon unless invited. OK, so we don't have the pressures of professional musicians, but this is what works for us.
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Author: Ben
Date: 2005-01-19 15:36
It is an interesting thing to me that this post is going on now.....
My wife and I just seperated and are planning a divorce. There are certainly many reasons for this, but among the biggest for me is her inability to understand/except the need to practice a lot and on a consistent basis. She's an elementary school teacher, and did play clarinet in college, but I never felt she was able to cope the the degree of dedication I have for studying music.
She would always complaining that I wasn't spending enough time with her....and when I spent more time with her I always felt like I was not practicing as much as I should be. A common phrase was 'the clarinet is just a thing, and I'm a person, so if you loved me you would spend your time with me and not it!' However, to me the clarinet is much more than a 'thing'; yes it is a tool, but one which I can express my deepest feelings and allow my imagination and creativity to function. Although I tried to compromise some, I didn't feel like it went both ways, and we consistently felt frustrated from our expectations of what we wanted not being attained.
This must be why so many people say 'never date/marry a musician'. It's not that we are a bad lot, but to be sucsessful and stay on our toes we have to work extremely hard and devote a lot of our time to continued study.
So, to anyone in a serious relationship with someone who wants you to choose between them and something else you love....watch out, it is a dissaster waiting to occur!
In the words of Kalmen Opperman, "Men rarely have sence when it comes to women until after they are 40."
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-01-19 16:03
Ben wrote:
...
It's true no matter what your passion(s) (is/are) - painting, playing, or, in my case, working with computers. There's always some compromise to be made.
My wife & I take "together" vacations and "apart" vacations, and even on the "together" vacations we sometimes spend some time apart. It's worked for us for the last 25 years.
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Author: clarinetwife
Date: 2005-01-19 19:35
Ben said:
>So, to anyone in a serious relationship with someone who wants you to choose between them and something else you love....watch out, it is a dissaster waiting to occur!<
Ben, so sorry to hear what is happening. Your "warning" is so apt for many consuming interests that one spouse might have that the other does not share. There is nothing wrong with having your own things you do in your life, as long as life as a couple and a family is also given priority. I know a musician whose wife is a long distance runner. He does not run, and she isn't a musician, but he goes to her races and she goes to his concerts. That is what they worked out years ago in order to have healthy individual interests and a healthy marriage.
BTW, I chose my screen name for the double meaning that I am married to a clarinetist, and I am also "married" to the clarinet (even though I decided years ago not to try to make a living as a performer).
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