 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Firebird
Date: 2004-12-13 05:42
I don't get it. What's with R13 that everyone loves it so much? I personally prefer to use RC.
Chan
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2004-12-13 06:14
I don't get it. What's with RC that some people love it so much? I personally prefer to use R13.
(I actually play Eaton but before that it was R13)
Post Edited (2004-12-13 09:08)
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2004-12-13 06:57
I honestly don't know why everyone loves the R13. There are some great options around: it doesn't have to be a Buffet world!
__________________
Don't hate me because I play Leblanc! ![[down]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley23.gif) Buffet
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Author: rc_clarinetlady
Date: 2004-12-13 07:56
I play a Buffet R 13. Mine was made in 1974 and that's when I started playing it too. I was 15 years old and didn't know any different. It cost my parents $ 450 at that time as a Christmas gift and it's as warm and perfect an instrument today as it was back then. I think that's part of Buffet's charm.
HOWEVER..........................
Just because I chose Buffet years ago doesn't stereotype me into some sort of different kind of person. I get so tired of people lumping me into some kind of " Buffet Mafia" of " Buffet Snob" so to speak. Just put on a mouthpiece, reed and go out and do your best no matter what brand name is on the front of your clarinet. We all just need to get along and play nice!!! Why do people try to put to much division between us all the time? I don't understand the need to make a point of the differences between Buffets and the other fine clarinets when clearly it's simply a personal preference issue and it's been discussed to death. If you're asking sincerely why people like their R 13's then you're asking for an answer. If you're asking why people think their Buffet's are superior to any other instrument out there then you're asking for an argument. Life is just too short for this. Get one and move on. That's about as harsh as I will ever get. Sorry, but it's what I believe.
Rebecca
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Author: Aussie Nick
Date: 2004-12-13 08:00
"RC is considerably more expensive, and R13 gets the job done quite well."
I don't know how that is possible because here the RC is only a couple of hundred dollars more than the R13.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2004-12-13 09:23
Rebecca I don't exactly understand some things in your post. Firebird clearly has nothing against Buffet, or even mentioned a different brand. He just asked why people prefer the R13 over other models like the RC for example.
I am guessing EEBaum is from the USA, and if he is talking about the USA he is right, but that is not the case in many countries in Europe.
In france and Italy for example I saw places that the RC model was actually cheaper, or places both models cost the same.
In France I think most play RC and not R13, and the same in a lot of other countries in Europe. They even refer to the R13 as "the American model".
Firebird, if you only refer to the USA, I think that is because there are much more R13 clarinets there. The chance of finding a good R13 is much higher, if you can find a RC at all.
I've played both models and prefered the R13 overall. Can't really exaplain why except saying I liked the sound better.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-12-13 10:51
This can easily be a very tedious thread - it's been done to death before and is essentially akin to asking:
"Why do you like apple pie?"
What exactly is the point? People like what they like ...
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2004-12-13 13:28
Right, Mark.
I tried and owned about every clarinet on the market a couple of years back and finally settled on the R-13 because it is a good all-purpose instrument. It blends well with band or orchestra and does any solos I may be assigned quite nicely. I never know who my orchestra partner might be when I travel, and you can almost certainly bet he/she will open the case to an R-13. I played one year with a guy who played a Yamaha and it was a horrible year for intonation problems. People who bought the CD said the clarinets sounded horrible that year. I told him to get a better instrument, or learn how to tune it to an R-13. I'll say this---not all Yamahas are bad--but R-13s are just an orchestral standard around the world.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2004-12-13 13:30
Actually, if he had just TUNED it would have been great! Nevermind tuning to an R-13--just to a tuner.
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Author: Firebird
Date: 2004-12-13 13:36
Hmm. I don't think it is correct to say around the world. Pros here use RC Prestige. What is the difference in sound? RC bore is said to be 14.65 mm and R13 is 14.64. Does it really make a great difference to choose between either of the 2?
Chan
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-12-13 13:40
I guess the reason so many people seem to like R-13 is because so many people OWN R-13's. And it's the largest production model clarinet in the world. And the more people that use it, the more it's going to be recommended, and the more people will begin to use it, and so the formings of a "monopoly" begin to show.
Sort of how when anyone orders a computer, it's usually set up with Microsoft programs on it. Everyone knows the name, so everyone gets used to hearing it (using it in this particular case) and it just grows and grows in popularity. It may not be what YOU consider the best, but chances are that your neighbor is familiar with it and maybe not Linux or Apple or whatever else you like to use.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: rc_clarinetlady
Date: 2004-12-13 15:02
Clarnibass, my point was basically the same as Mark's. It is so much an issue of personal preference. If I were to try and guide a student, sure, I would have them try a Buffet. That, and some of the other wonderful clarinets that are made.
If I were buying new clarinets then I would surely be looking for advice from this Bboard about my options, and I would probably end up with Buffets again, but I don't get why we discuss continually the Buffet issue when it is a personal preference. Maybe it helps some people but I like Mark's apple pie analogy. Good one. I happen to like pumpkin pie. Enjoy your time playing!!
Rebecca
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-12-13 15:17
The R-13 my teacher picked out for me during the mid-70's was a lousy horn. I got rid of it and never looked back. Since then I've had no reason to favor Buffet clarinets over other brands. There are good ones and bad ones, but all have two things in common --- they are overpriced and overrated.
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Author: CPW
Date: 2004-12-13 15:35
Love means you never have to say you are sorry.
Love the one you are with....
The greatest deterant to divorce is "HAAALLLFFF!!!!" (attrib. Sam Kineson)
which does not apply to clarinetomania.
yep this could get tedious.
Doent mean that the one you love is perfect.
"A clarinetist isn't old until he/she stops looking" might be more apropos.
Against the windmills of my mind
The jousting pole splinters
Post Edited (2004-12-13 16:26)
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Author: Ralph G
Date: 2004-12-13 15:40
A good R-13 is like a good Honda Accord -- a quality, honest, dependable ride.
--Ralph (who owns a 1998 R-13 and a 2001 Accord EX V6)
________________
Artistic talent is a gift from God and whoever discovers it in himself has a certain obligation: to know that he cannot waste this talent, but must develop it.
- Pope John Paul II
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Author: msloss
Date: 2004-12-13 16:27
RC bore is the preferred instrument in Europe. R13 is pretty much made for the American market. The price is about the same. In my own experience the RC is a little sweeter and the R13 more powerful. Not a surprise when you think about the difference between US and Euro orchestras. I recently played a set of RC Prestiges that were absolutely phenomenal. I would play a chamber gig on them any day, but not sure how they would compete in a US orchestral clarinet section. That said, I play an RCP Eb clarinet, and it does fine. Some sweetness on that little monster is a good thing.
Do you really think they are overpriced and overrated? I know a few bassoonists, flautists, oboists, ... oh wait... EVERYBODY in the orchestra with the possible exception of the trumpet players who pay more for their instruments than we do. I think two grand for a professional horn is a steal.
Ralph, does that make the Greenline Buffet's answer to the hybrid Accord?
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Author: Ralph G
Date: 2004-12-13 18:07
And is the E-13 the equivalent of a Civic? Do we equate the R-13 Prestige with an Acura TL? Wow, I could make these comparisons all day! And I probably will!
/slow work day
________________
Artistic talent is a gift from God and whoever discovers it in himself has a certain obligation: to know that he cannot waste this talent, but must develop it.
- Pope John Paul II
Post Edited (2004-12-13 18:08)
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Author: donald
Date: 2004-12-13 18:16
as far as i can tell the RC model has a smaller bore in the register key vent, making the tuning of the left hand 12ths better (although there are undoubtedly other factors at work). This also appears to make the upper register a bit more "covered" in feeling (in sound? i couldn't say that).
This is based only on the experience of swapping and measuring register vents between one RC and one R13, and may not be typical. However the smaller (and higher?) register vent is typical.
donald
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Author: sinkdraiN
Date: 2004-12-13 18:36
Didn't Hitler stop the production of all clarinets except Buffet R13s when he occupied France. Everyone played R13s at that time and the tradition stuck. Moennig had to make major alterations to the R13 so that they were playable.
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Author: CPW
Date: 2004-12-13 19:07
Are you saying that Hitler was tone deaf?
Aha...now I understand.
Actually there is no such thing as an R13. The bore was designed by
Arthur King, and the nomenclature stuck.
Naw, that is not it....actually instead of tuning to perfect 12ths, they were so sharp that it tuned to a 13th higher, and that is how it got its name.
(tongue so far in cheek even dentist couldnt remove it)
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Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2004-12-13 21:34
I don't know, my E11 I think sounds better than a LOT of R13's...just my oppinion. Then again, I have an A R13 and it is definitely a more mellow sound...not as bright or playful, very dark and mellow...beautiful sound, but for bright stuff, the E11 has the edge.
And on a clarinetist's salary, the $200 difference between the RC and R13 could be a lot! :-)
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2004-12-13 21:46
My main horn is King "Marigaux 350". The back up is Vintage R-13 from 1955. Sound on my Marigaux is very smooth and darker than R-13.
But.. if I had to choose a single horn. It would be an R-13!
PS
I thought an R-13 is like a good Toyota Camry XLE V6......
Vytas Krass
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
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Author: Bradley
Date: 2004-12-13 21:52
clarinetist04- Have you tried E11s in A, or are you comparing a Bb to an A? In that comparison the results would back up your findings with almost any two models of clarinets.
Bradley
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Author: Ralph G
Date: 2004-12-13 21:55
I almost said the R-13 is like a Camry, but I'm an Accord owner, so there you go.
(Disclosure: though I'm the principal owner of the Accord on paper, it's actually my wife's car. I drive a Dodge.)
People see my double case and ask why I have two clarinets. The best analogy I can give them is that my Bb is like my car -- my everyday driver car. My A clarinet is like a pickup truck -- you need one every so often for special purposes.
And my old student Signet Bb is like my first cheapie used car -- it gets you there.
________________
Artistic talent is a gift from God and whoever discovers it in himself has a certain obligation: to know that he cannot waste this talent, but must develop it.
- Pope John Paul II
Post Edited (2004-12-13 21:59)
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Author: Avie
Date: 2004-12-13 22:40
I own a 1968 Buffet R13 (super Dynaction) and a Selmer (student Model) clarinet. I think that eventually with considerable practice and experimentation one can make any brand of clarinet sound decent. Tone is a matter of personal taste, that in my case changes from time to time. Rather than to buy another clarinet there are many other variables but the tone will change with a differant mouth piece, barrel or reed. I think that playing on the same instrument has its advantages. I didnt know what I was doing when I purchased my Buffet so I guess I lucked out. For whatever it means I also own an Acura TL Good luck with whatever you play.
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Author: Mrs. Redfern
Date: 2004-12-14 00:56
ya'll mean you don't want to be part of the Buffet Mafia?! its ok... maybe only the chosen people can be in.... haha!
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-12-14 22:11
Because they're dependable, playable and worth repairing when required.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Pappy
Date: 2004-12-15 13:27
Fascinating. I switched from a 1973 Selmer 10g to a 1964 R-13 a a few years ago and am very happy with the switch. I also switched from my Honda Accord to a Nissan Altima a few months ago and that's working out quite well. Doesn't seem a real good analogy. Perhaps and R-13 is really just an R-13 ;-)
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Author: jmsa
Date: 2004-12-15 18:32
Pappy it is interesting that I too recently switched from a Honda Accord to a Nissan Altima and I also play an R13. I started with a metal clarinet and went directly to the R13. I have never tried anything else except Conn 424N,444N, and 464N. My R13 is as the old Buffet advertisements stated "The Sweetest Horn Ever Made."
jmsa
Post Edited (2004-12-15 18:35)
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Author: Tom J.
Date: 2004-12-15 22:44
It seems that a great product sells itself.
Strasser-Marigaux is now out of the clarinet business, and Leblanc has just been acquired by Steinway Musical Instruments (aka Selmer).
With Yamaha as the only serious competition (maybe), Buffet will probably remain the pre-eminent maker for some time.
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Author: ClarinetGirl312
Date: 2004-12-15 23:35
Personally, I prefer the Buffet Festival model. All R-13's that I've tried have seemed stuffy and empty. The Festival seems to have a fuller, darker sound. It's a good choice for both A and Bb. Also, my teacher has an RC that he's had forever and it works just great for him. But, if you find a good enough R-13, it might work out for you. It all depends on the instrument-they're like people: each one has a different personality, unique to itself.
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Author: Aussiegirl
Date: 2004-12-28 05:51
I have an R13, having known not much else except a crappy yamaha thing and a B12, and apart from a few teething problems with the joints getting stuck together, it plays quite nicely...and thats my story done!
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Author: Jazz3774
Date: 2004-12-28 21:15
I was a big Selmer fan for 30 years. Played a 10G, a 10 S, and a Series 9. Never wanted to play a Buffett and never tried one.
Until recently when I got my hands on a Buffet with the articulated G# and the third ring on the left hand. (Forked Ab/Bb)
As it turns out, this "rara avis" Buffett is an F series, made for the European market, probably around 1950-55. Higher pitch, around 442. I think it is called an "R14" due to the number of keys?
Wow, I have to admit (you all Buffett fans) that it is a very nice instrument. The sound is more focused and it feels very comfortable in a classical or concert band solo setting. The pianissimos are effortless, it sounds more "classical" and more in tune, specially the throat tones.
I found it is kind of picky on mouthpieces (at least for me); I tried about ten different ones before I settled on an old Selmer "S" that Joe Viola gave me during my days at Berklee, many moons ago.
Anyway, I still like the Selmers and their big, wide sound; but now I will only use them for "loud" concert band or big band jobs.
Is this means I got recruited by the Buffett mafia? No way
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Author: Wes
Date: 2005-01-03 08:36
The new R13 that I recently bought seems to be a little better in tune on the high notes by comparison to my 1971 R13. The high e speaks easier and the entire instrument is a little more responsive. There is a slight difference in the key design but it is minor, mostly appearing with the side Eb/Bb key. The overall pitch may be an iota higher but A440 is still the ballpark, pulled out a sixteenth of an inch when warm. Compared to other new instruments(oboe, etc) it's a bargain.
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