 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Shadow
Date: 2004-11-28 19:05
I currently play tuba in both of our schools bands, But I switched from the clarinet and am very interested in playing this monstrosity, and I was wondering if anyone could tell me how much the contra differs from a playing a bass in playability volume agility and size.
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Author: pzaur
Date: 2004-11-28 23:15
Shadow, I
currently play one of and on in the community band I play in. I've found that the agility (ability to quickly move between the notes) is all in the fingers. If you're looking to try and tongue quickly and crisply, good luck. You can tongue just as fast as on bass, but it is going to come out more muddied since the notes are lower. I've never really had any trouble playing with lots of volume. That, I attribute to having a semi-decent mouthpiece. I was able to choose between a couple that were available.
Reeds are very expensive and come in whole sizes only.
Just realize that BBb contras are extremely finicky. I used to think that basses were difficult to play with tiny leaks until I played a contra. There were probably two pads that weren't sealing perfectly and presto, I wasn't able to play above a midline Bb. After it was fixed, I could go all the way up to the altissimo range.
Chances are really good that you'll need a stool to sit on to play it.
Good luck playing it when you get the chance.
Maybe you'll even see the notes starting to jump around on the page when you start playing the lower notes!
-pat
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-11-29 18:02
I've played a lot of contra, Eb and BBb. As Pat says, they're finicky. You pick them up and put them down like a baby, and even then you have to watch out not to bend the super-long rods. A tuba can withstand abuse. A contra can't.
Leblanc's metal BBb contras are rather tuba-like, with a thick tone and plenty of volume (though not even close to what a tuba can put out). You can play fairly fast, and very soft, on them.
Selmer makes a BBb contra, but I've never seen one, probably because the price is astronomical, and Leblanc has the market pretty well cornered. The Vito BBb has a smaller bore, but is still rather tuba-like. None of them goes into the altissimo without special fingerings.
Eb contras are a different animal -- nearly identical to a bass clarinet, with easy, supple response. Bundy and its identical twin Linton have most of the entry-level market, while the metal Leblanc has the midrange and the rosewood Selmer the high end. Buffet makes one, which even has a pierced plate for the left index finger so you can play in the altissimo, but the price is insane, and I've never seen one, even at Buffet displays.
There's no substitute for the tuba when you want to support a band. For a woodwind ensemble or clarinet choir, an Eb or BBb contra is ideal.
There's lots of material on playing the contra in the Clarinet board and Klarinet list archives, and also at http://www.contrabass.com. Browse around and come back with more questions.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Ed
Date: 2004-11-29 18:06
Ditto to the other remarks. You can put out some good volume when needed, not quite brass player levels, but pretty darn good. Agility is tough because there is lots of plumbing there, so it takes a bit of practice.
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Author: Shadow
Date: 2004-11-30 03:23
Thanks for the info, but there is one thing I forgot to ask, about how tall is one of these "strait" contra's and about how long is the case, I am guessing this is not something I would be able to take on the bus.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2004-11-30 04:16
Well I know people that take their doublebass on the bass.
Also to Ken, the only contrabass clarinet players I know use the Selmer and it has a really great sound, so now that I hear "Leblanc has the market conrenered" I'm interested in hearing a Leblanc contra. Do you know where I can find a recording of someone playing a Leblanc contra?
Thanks.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2004-11-30 04:34
>about how tall is one of these "strait" contra's
>and about how long is the case
http://www.pewd.com/clarinet/contrabass.jpg
i'm 6'5" , the horn's about the same; i dont have it here at the moment, i think the case is close to 7'.
-paul
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-11-30 15:21
I should have said that Leblanc has the BBb contra market cornered. Of course, the Selmer is the top Eb contra, with the Bundy/Linton and Vito occupying the bottom. If a recording has a BBb contra in it, it's almost certainly a Leblanc.
The Leblanc straight BBb contra (range to low Eb) can be taken apart in the middle, and I think Leblanc makes a (comparatively) short case for it. However, you have to be super careful assembling it and taking it apart. The long, long rods bend if you just look at them, and if you drop the instrument, there's next to zero chance that it will play without some expert attention. I always commandeer a percussion table (with a carpet on top) to lay the instrument on when I'm not playing it.
You can sit to play an Eb contra, and a BBb paperclip contra, but have to stand to play a straight BBb, or at least sit on a tall bass stool.
To hear some gorgeous contra playing (almost certainly Eb), listen to the Ella Fitzgerald Gershwin Songbooks. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000006P6L/qid=1101830810/sr=1-4/ref=sr_1_4/103-4814034-0875835?v=glance&s=music. Expensive, but worth every penny.
Any recording with Dennis Smylie or Virgil Blackwell playing contra will be great. Dennis Smylie plays a stunning contra on some of Richard Stoltzman's CDs, particularly in the Barber Adagio. That one is a Linton, extensively customized by Kalmen Opperman.
Terje Lerstadt has made a specialty of low clarinets and has made some remarkable recordings, taking both the Eb and BBb contra up into the stratosphere.
There have been some excellent threads on contra. See http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=84955&t=84930
http://www.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=101693&t=101582
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=21756&t=21655
and the Contrabass list, http://www.contrabass.com, which has excellent discussions but, unfortunately, doesn't have a full search engine.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2004-12-01 05:40
I've played both types on and off since my first years of high school, and I can enthusiastically second the recommendation for the LeBlanc instruments. The Hovenagel-designed "paperclip" instruments have all of the quirks taken out of them, and are much more facile overall than are the "top of the line" straight instruments, even the unreachable Selmers.
While the "split" Hovenagel horn is "bus able", none of the others are something that you'd want to have to transport on any public conveyance. The cases are just too long and blocky for the bus experience. Not as large and heavy as a bass sax, or as bulky as a double bass, but in their own way very awkward and hard to transport.
Whatever you do, don't fall into the "bass clarinet" trap and devote all of your playing time to the contra clarinets. Make sure you keep up your Eb, Bb, Ab and bass (and sax, but not alto clarinet) skills, so you will broaden your field of "usefulness" in the future.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2004-12-01 13:44
Thanks Ken I will check those out.
Also you can see I said contrabass, not contra-alto. I meant the only 3 players (in records) I heard playing BBb contrabass clarinet played Selmers.
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Author: msloss
Date: 2004-12-01 14:38
Had one in my apartment in college. Darned thing hissed all the time and the adjustment valve was corroded in place.
Or was that my radiator...
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-12-01 14:49
msloss -
Leblanc has been making contras out of old radiators for years. I thought you knew. . . .
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Author: Wayne Thompson
Date: 2004-12-01 18:57
Thanks, all. I have been playing contrabass for about 2 months now and was about to start a thread with some of the same questions. Ken, you've saved me some trouble looking for threads. Thanks, I'll read those.
But here's an immediate quick question: are the clarion D, D#, E, and F the most resistant, difficult notes on this horn? (I think we'd agree that they are on the bass clarinet.) I believe (???!!) my horn is in good condition; it is a Kenosha Leblanc paperclip.
WT
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-12-01 20:08
The register key mechanism on the Leblanc contras is insanely complicated, gets ot of adjustment very easily and is difficult to fix, because it incolves many pieces and connections, with springs balancing against one another, where one spring has to overpower another if a key is up or down.
An easy way to check is to have a friend (or two friends) watch the operation of the mechanism as you play, particularly when your right ring finger goes up or down.
Play clarion D. Then have your friend press down on the upper register key pad and the throat Bb pad. If the D and D# get better, then one of the two keys is not quite closing completely. Even a tiny leak can play havoc with the response.
Have your friend let go, play D, lift your ring finger to play E, and then put it back down very slowly. Often the mechanism will be fine with snappy finger movement but will hang with slow movement. Once again, test by having your friend press down on the two keys.
Now go the other way. Play E and then have your friend press the lower register key pad and the Bb pad. Then play E, lower your ring finger slowly and then raise it slowly, having your friend check the two keys.
Another possibility is that you have a pad that's not well seated somewhere in the right hand area. This may affect the low register, but not necessarily.
In any case, this is a job for someone who has done lots of work on Leblanc metal contras. Pad seating is tricky, since the pads are held on by a screw and have to be adjusted by putting semicircles of paper under them (like flute pads). I had my paperclip BBb reconditioned by a flute specialist, but a saxophone shop will also know what to do.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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