 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Willie
Date: 2000-05-11 06:03
I've been shaking the trees trying to myself a contra alto of my own, both localy and on ebay. Most were WELL used and priced horrendously. Some were absolute junk picked up at school auctions. I want to find a paper clip model so as to have low C. This is mainly because I play a lot of bari parts an octave lower than written and those extra notes would be handy. My question is (putting aside the low C factor), which would be a better horn, the straight or paper clip models? The key work on the curved looks like a nightmare, but then the straight ones (like I play now) are cursed with long, flexible, and easily bent keys.
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2000-05-11 13:29
In my Philharmonic Orchestra we have a LeBlanc paperclip model that works perfectly every time I pick it up, even after have been lying in it's case for a year or two. In the Radio Symphony Orchestra a few blocks away, they have a Selmer rosewood straight model (very beautiful to look at) that never works when they need it, since the wood moves around when not being used.
I think It's a matter of how often you are going to play it. Wooden contras don't like to lie around for a long time. However, the wooden straight model has a richer sound that can be developed more. It's the choice for specialists and perfect for chamber music. I would choose the metal paperclip model for orchestra and band for practical reasons, since it's mainly an effect instrument and the relatively poor tone-quality is not so notisable. Even if the key-system is very complex it's still less fragile than the wooden straight since you are more in control if you handle it with care. Warping you can't do much about.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2000-05-11 17:21
Willie asked:
Which would be a better [contra-alto], the straight or paper clip models? The key work on the curved looks like a nightmare, but then the straight ones (like I play now) are cursed with long, flexible, and easily bent keys.
Willie -
The straight and paper clip Leblanc metal Eb contra-altos play pretty much the same. The paper clip model has rods that are shorter than the straight model, but has the disadvantage that there are 2-part connectors jumping across the gap between the descending and ascending sections, which are also difficult to keep in adjustment. I'd say it's an even tradeoff of durability problems.
With the Leblanc straight BBb contra (bottom note written Eb), you must stand or sit on a double bass stool to play. I'm not sure about straight the Eb contra-alto. Both sizes of paper clip models can be played sitting down.
I'm pretty sure the paper clip Eb contra-alto has always used a (comparatively) small mouthpiece that takes baritone sax reeds. This means that the notes below low E, down to low C, are unfocused in tone and pitch and thus not very useful. I have a BBb paperclip with the older, large mouthpiece (takes bass sax reeds), and the bottom notes are a problem even there.
Most conductors don't like bass lines doubled an octave down, except maybe on final cadences. The parallel octaves tend to call attention to themselves and interfere with the blend. Why not get a straight model and double at pitch?
The Selmer (wood) and Leblanc contra-altos play very differently. The Selmer is simply a large bass clarinet, with all the flexibility of that instrument. You can play it quite loud, as well as very soft. The tone is comparatively light, though plenty to support a clarinet choir. The Leblanc has a much broader sound, a tuba instead of a bass trombone, and you can shake the rafters with it. Softer playing and crisp tonguing are more difficult than on the Selmer.
I have not played the Bundy or Vito models, but I would expect them to play much like the Selmer.
Any older instrument will need substantial repair work. I took my BBb paper clip to a flute specialist on the theory that seating pads on large metal rims was similar to flute work. Once the instrument is covering, you will need a good mouthpiece. I remember that at least one of the Sneezy sponsors makes them.
I was lucky and got a paper clip BBb in decent condition. You just have to wait for one to come along. The one that was on eBay recently was such an early model that it had only a single register key, which would make it unusable. Don't expect to find anything too cheap. I spent about $3000 by the time I got mine into playing condition.
Good luck.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Willie
Date: 2000-05-11 21:40
I play the straight EEb now, but its an old clunker the local high school loaned me as they don't like it, but can't sell it. I worked on it off and on for a looong time before it was playable again (still trouble with middle staff B). I also have two MPs, the original LeBlanc sized for contra reeds and a selmer, sized for bari reeds. Most of the music we play is movie score/TV themes, old standards, etc. Very little classical as WE know it (Yackity Sax is concidered classical down here). Most of the parts I play are bari sax that sometimes go up into altissimo. This contra sounds like a plastic cello stuffed with dirty skivvies when played up high. Therefore I go low. This where a low C extention would be nice. An example is the theme from the movie "Twister". By going an octive lower I can rumble with the tubas and add more depth.
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Author: Kontragirl
Date: 2000-05-11 22:15
In all of my research, I've found that it will be a lot easier for you to find a straight contra that goes down to low C. Every curved one I've seen only gets to Eb. Of course, with a few modifications...:o)
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2000-05-12 15:31
Hi Ken!
Since you are a very experienced contra player, can you give your comments to my first thread above. My experience is limited to the two instruments that I mentioned in that thread.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2000-05-12 20:54
Alphie wrote:
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Hi Ken!
Since you are a very experienced contra player, can you give your comments to my first thread above. My experience is limited to the two instruments that I mentioned in that thread.
and his previous posting was:
In my Philharmonic Orchestra we have a LeBlanc paperclip model that works perfectly every time I pick it up, even after have been lying in it's case for a year or two. In the Radio Symphony Orchestra a few blocks away, they have a Selmer rosewood straight model (very beautiful to look at) that never works when they need it, since the wood moves around when not being used.
I think it's a matter of how often you are going to play it. Wooden contras don't like to lie around for a long time. However, the wooden straight model has a richer sound that can be developed more. It's the choice for specialists and perfect for chamber music. I would choose the metal paperclip model for orchestra and band for practical reasons, since it's mainly an effect instrument and the relatively poor tone-quality is not so notisable. Even if the key-system is very complex it's still less fragile than the wooden straight since you are more in control if you handle it with care. Warping you can't do much about.
Alphie -
I've always handled the Leblanc metal contras very carefully - more carefully than my R-13s - on the theory that rough treatment will harm the long rods and (on the paper clip models) the free-standing connectors between the "up" and "down" tubes and that the greater weight of the contra means more damage if it falls.
The Leblanc mechanism is strong enough to stay pretty well in adjustment, at least on the older models. However, the leather pads will stiffen, particularly if the instrument stays in the case for a year or two.
I've never had any trouble playing the Selmer rosewood contra-alto, but I'm sure the wood will work over time. Once again, though, I think the problem is mostly with the pads, which are usually leather. If I had one of my own, I would get as many felt/fishskin pads as possible, and have a top repair shop (e.g., Brannen) level the rims and fill in the grain to ensure a tight seal.
My experience with tone quality is the opposite of yours. I never much liked the tone quality of the Selmer C-A. It was too narrow - no difference between it and a bass clarinet. The response was very quick, though. I could play anything on it that I could play on the soprano. But then I was playing a stock mouthpiece (a Selmer C**, as I recall), and a hand-made mouthpiece presumably would give a better tone.
The Buffet catalog lists a wood C-A with a pierced left index pad to allow standard altissimo fingerings. I've never played one, but assume it would be good.
I've always liked the sound of the Leblanc BBb contra, particularly with the old, large mouthpiece. It has plenty of presence, but also has a broader, rounder quality than the Selmer. It's not a virtuoso's instrument - the response is too slow - but it's the ideal support for a clarinet choir. Also, I've never had trouble playing it softly.
If I were playing chamber music on contra (how much is there?), I would probably use a C-A rather than a C-B. If it were a cello part, I'd probably use a Selmer C-A, since the response is faster and the narrower tone better approximates the cello sound. But then, why not use a bass clarinet? Even a short model bass has the complete cello low range except the final C.
There is one artist level contra in the world, a plastic Vito (I think) C-A that Kalmen Opperman spend hundreds of hours on, tweaking the bore, undercutting the tone holes, rounding off sharp edges and making a handmade mouthpiece and reeds. You can hear it on the various Stoltzman CDs in the Opperman Clarinet Choir, played by Dennis Smylie (who makes everything sound good).
There's some amazing contra playing on the Ella Fitzgerald Gershwin Songbook CD set. Whoever was playing got it just right. And of course Ella got it just right, too. Everyone needs this set, to hear great musicians making great music.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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