 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Jason Choi 2
Date: 2004-10-31 05:09
Hello everyone, my name is Jason Choi and I have been playing clarinet in
my school for quite awhile now. Im am doing very good and I definetely
plan on contuniue playing the clarinet for many years to come. Here is my
current problem: I have finally decided to upgrade my original clarinet to
something that will last me a lifetime, and after talking to my clarinet
teacher I have decided to purchase a Buffet R13. My instructor informed me
that a friend of his has one for sale for $1100. However this one is used
and was made in about 1950. I also have the oppourtunity to purchase a
new one. My question to you all is if you think paying the extra money is
worth it for a new one as opposed to an old one.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2004-10-31 05:28
Be aware that the Buffet R-13 polycylindrical bore production was started in about 1955 ...GBK
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: mkybrain
Date: 2004-10-31 05:59
lol GBK, id be willing to bet that is gibberish to Jason...he seems kind of new(in comparison to people who have been playing as long as u have)......id would reccomend trying out that old one and if u like it, go with it, otherwise try out others......its hard to tell what u like when u don't necessarily know what ur looking for...just go with what u like, not when its made or in ur case it seems price..
just my 2 cents
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2004-10-31 05:16
mkybrain wrote:
> lol GBK, id be willing to bet that is gibberish to Jason
If his teacher is advising the purchase of a Buffet clarinet from 1950 and calling it an R13, he is either misinformed or not being completely honest ...GBK
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: msloss
Date: 2004-10-31 20:47
Jason, get another opinion from somebody without a stake in the game before buying the instrument. You need to know (a) if it is a good instrument, and (b) if the price is fair for what you are getting. You may have a rare opportunity because of the seller's relationship to your teacher, but you need to be sure before plunking down a kilobuck.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: hans
Date: 2004-11-01 00:33
IMO it would be prudent to get the instrument examined by a professional repair tech to make sure that it doesn't need $500 worth of repairs or have a crack that only shows up under certain conditions.
A new one comes with a warranty.
Regards,
Hans
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2004-11-01 04:14
As has been noted often before on this board and the Klarinet list, there are R13's and there are R13's. That model designation was used in the US by the importer, Carl Fischer, long before Buffet adopted it when they introduced the polycylindrical bore. (Which, unless it has changed again recently, Buffet now dates at 1950 rather than 1955.) Thus I disagree that your teacher is necessarily misinformed or not entirely honest. However, I do agree with msloss that there is a potential conflict of interest in your teacher's recommendation and that an independent third-party opinion is warranted.
Unlike violins, however, clarinets do not improve with age. Typical fair market value of a circa 1950 R13 in good playing condition is probably closer to $500 - $600 than $1,100. IMO, the old model your teacher has identified is overpriced. Even if it is a good clarinet for its age, if you are serious enough about playing to want a professional clarinet, I recommend you look for more recent technology. It's one thing to grow old with a clarinet that you bought when you both were young. It's quite another to buy a clarinet that has already grown old with a stranger.
Best regards,
jnk
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: rc_clarinetlady
Date: 2004-11-01 06:40
I agree with jnk. I think it's overpriced too. In the area I live anyway. You can get a new Buffet R-13 for not a whole lot more than that at one of our shops around here. Not a chain I like but I did go in and see their line of clarinets recently and was quite surprised at the prices. Lower than what I thought they'd be.
They had a German made Buffet that played better than any of the others there. I think it's price was $ 1300 but they were very careful to tell me that it wasn't the French made R-13 that most teachers want their students to get. It was, never the less, the best playing one there. Nice big sound and crystal clear ring. Just thoughts.
Rebecca
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2004-11-01 07:13
$1,100 sounds a bit too much for a 54 year old R13. Maybe even more than a bit. If you try a lot of them it shouldn't be a problem finding a new good R13.
Also I have to agree with GBK about the year. Here is a quote from Buffet about the R13 clarinet: "...Developed in 1955 under the guidance of Robert Carrיe..."
Good luck.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2004-11-01 14:11
I agree with the new one. You'll have a warranty, hopefully a shop with a repair person you can take it to if you need adjustments, etc. Also, not all old R-13s are good. I agree the $1,100.00 is too much for one made in 1950. The good ones were a bit later--like 60s.
For someone just getting started playing and wanting to pursue serious study, the new R-13 is the best idea. I speak as a player of 45 years and a mother of 2 sons and grandmother of 2 girls.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Vytas
Date: 2004-11-01 19:48
Attachment: BC468XX-1954Cert.jpg (29k)
Attachment: E&S-30s.jpg (92k)
****If his teacher is advising the purchase of a Buffet clarinet from 1950 and calling it an R13, he is either misinformed or not being completely honest ...GBK****
Are you telling that thousands of people who bought Buffet Crampon (way before the 1950) and have the model R13 showing on their certificates are either misinformed or not being completely honest? Who's misinformed here GBK?
I've seen many of those certificates and Buffet brochures so there's no doubt that Buffet Crampon was selling Pro clarinets in US as model R-13 as far back as 1937. (There's enough information on this BB just use search button…hehe)
IMO to call a person "either misinformed or not being completely honest" in this case would be at least unfair. He said it was an R13 and he is right. Weather or not the clarinet is an R-13 "master bore" or an R-13 "polycylindrical bore" is another issue.
Many of as aware that Buffet introduced polycylindrical bore in 1955 (with serial number around 50.000). Mr. Kloc indicated that "there was no R-13 before 1955" IMO what he meant was that there was no policylindrical bore before 1955. I"m not baying Mr. Kloc's explanation that R-13 was American designation and Buffet wasn't aware of this either.
All those certificates I mentioned earlier arrived to the dealer already marked:
Guarantee Certificate No. XX
Buffet clarinet model. R13
Serial No. XXXXX
So, who wrote the R13 on the certificate? Let's assume that this was done by distributor/importer and Buffet had no knowledge of it. Do you think it was only coincidence that polycylindrical bore clarinets become the model R-13 in 1955? I don't think so!
Since 1930 Evette and Schaeffer clarinets were sold (guess what) as model E13 (see pic). In 1980 Evette and Schaeffer (COINCIDENTLY? Again?) become the model E13. Same story happened with the other models like Evette etc. Does anyone still think it was only coincidence?
I personally was called as not being completely honest on this bard when I had my E&S listed on eBay as "Evette & Schaeffer (E13)" (was it Jack Kissinger?).
Everyone who thinks that there was no R13 before 1955 and E&S wasn't the E13 model IS misinformed. Check the picks and live in peace.
PS.
By the way the price for 1950 R13 master bore clarinet is too high I've sold many of these completely overhauled and never got more than $777.77
Pic. No1 - Buffet Crampon model R13 ser. 46xxx 1954
Pic. No2 - E&S model E13 1930s
Vytas Krass
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2004-11-01 20:19
Vytas... Your facts are correct, but the implication in the original post (at least to me) was that the teacher was equating a Buffet clarinet from 1950 (whether called an R13 or not) to a polycylindrical bore Buffet R-13 clarinet from 2004.
I am well aware that there were SOME polycylindrical bore clarinets prior to 1955. We all know that Marcellus played a Buffet A clarinet (#45451) from 1953.
However, the chances that the teacher's clarinet in question from 1950 is a polycylindrical bore R-13 instrument is very slim.
For more clarification, read Greg Smith's posting towards the end of this particular thread:
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=134954&t=134746 ...GBK
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
