 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: nickma
Date: 2004-10-25 21:01
Just bought this and wondered if anyone knew what the 'Limited Edition' designation on the case means?
It comes in an attache style brown case of the size you'd expect to carry a pair, but with inserts designed just for a Bb, sheet music and loads of room for stuff. Inside the case is the 'Limited Edition' designation (maybe it just refers to the case!!)
The R13 is a 1972 model, 132XXX, with a much graver sound, grainier bottom end, and softer projection than later models. Intonation is reasonably good, and keys are nickel plated.
Any information?
Cheers
Nick
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Author: Fred
Date: 2004-10-27 11:38
There are quite a few relatively rare Buffet models, but most that I am aware of add some designation to the instrument. That was, however, close to the time the Anniversary Model came out. There was a silver plate located above the A key on that one - could it have come off?
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-10-27 12:17
The R-13 Buffet Anniversary Model was in 1975 and it was marked on the body of the clarinet.
Just below the logo on the upper joint (only) it read Modele du 150th Anniversaire
The case also had a similar designation.
I have one of the Anniversary Model Buffets (154xxx). It produces a very nice sound and appears to be made of excellent wood. I also have an R-13 (162xxx) which was similarly made in 1975 but which does not have the Anniversary designation. It is one of my favorite Buffets.
FWIW - Clark Fobes considers the run of Buffets made in 1975 to be exceptional instruments ...GBK
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Author: rc_clarinetlady
Date: 2004-10-27 15:46
Then here's and interesting bit of info.
I own a Buffet R-13 serial # 146xxx and I thought it was considered by many to be an exceptional instrument. I think it is. I did have some advice recently when I was asking questions about my set up and my search for my "sound" to come back that possibly my old Buffet may be the problem. The suggestion was that the newer models are much better.
In light of the comments here I'm wondering how the newer Buffets are "much better". I now believe that the "vintage" Buffets can be some of the best out there and I think I have one. I've kept it in excellent condition and I play it daily. In fact I practice it between 1-4 hours daily.
It was a Christmas 1974 present from my parents and I have a soft spot for it in my heart.... and always will. Hold on to the good ones! Rebecca
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-10-27 16:17
We've had the old vs new Buffet discussion many times.
Search the archives because there is a lot to read...GBK
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-10-27 18:01
There are no good Buffets whatsoever --- the old ones are "blown out" and the new ones are made of wood that's not aged. Ask anyone.....
Dave the Instigator
Chapter President, Buffet-Bashing Branch, East Coast Division
Absurdity Distributors of America
Deep in bombproof bunker where GBK can't find me
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-10-27 23:05
Down Periscope, Dave!! Did any R13 ever have any designation on it?
Bob Draznik
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Author: rc_clarinetlady
Date: 2004-10-27 23:49
Now, now. Let's be nice about clarinets. I mean even the one's you don't like are still clarinets and... as I tell my son..."At least they aren't trumpets!!!" He's a fine trumpeter so I have to razz him whenever I can.
Why is there so much animosity towards Buffets David?? And explain "blown out" would you? I wouldn't bash a LeBlanc, Yamaha or Selmer just because I didn't own one (and I do own a
Selmer A) .
I've always felt that the player makes the horn...not the other way around : ).
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Author: Igloo Bob
Date: 2004-10-28 01:47
I love Mr. Spiegelthal's humor. I believe he was not being serious in his "animosity towards Buffets".
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Author: Fred
Date: 2004-10-28 03:10
Are R13's ever marked that way? Well, kind of . . .
Older ones not at all. Some newer ones have barrels designating the model the barrel is for (R13) and its length (660 etc).
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Author: rc_clarinetlady
Date: 2004-10-28 03:42
There isn't any place on my old (1974) Buffet that says R-13 but it does say Buffet Crampon & Cie.
It is my understanding that Buffets made before 1980 only had the name Buffet on them if they were the top of the line instruments. The intermediate models were called Evette or Evette & Schaeffer. The newer Buffets all carry the Buffet logo and name on them.
My new Buffet Moennig barrel does say R13 on it.
Mr. Spiegelthal....I really hope you were using your sense of humor. Funny. I have respected what you've written on this site before so I was really hoping you weren't serious. I'm kind of new to this BBoard so I guess I need to learn your sense of humor. Rebecca
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Author: OpusII
Date: 2004-10-28 09:31
I love the humor of mr. Spiegelthal to, especially his signature:
Dave the Instigator
Chapter President, Buffet-Bashing Branch, East Coast Division
Absurdity Distributors of America
Deep in bombproof bunker where GBK can't find me
![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif)
So I think he wasn't serious
Post Edited (2004-10-28 09:32)
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-10-28 14:47
Was kidding. Please increase sensitivity of your humor detectors (turn knob to right a few clicks). Buffets good. My jokes bad.
DS
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Author: nickma
Date: 2004-10-28 21:03
So...it's the case right? I have a vintage R13 from '72 with a case to beat all cases! How cool is that?
So here's my conundrum...the tone of this baby is just wonderful: rich, sweet, woody yet clear as a bell. The intonation is OK...sort of. Nothing incredible, a bit flat, consistently so it has to be said, so probably fixable wiht a shorter barrell (he says wishfully).
Now, do I keep this, together with pretentious case, or keep the Selmer 10G, X series, also from 1972, that has absolutely astounding intonation. Incredibly accurate, and soooo easy to play, like a runaway train. The tone is OK, not the sweetness and delight of the R13's inherent character, but pretty damn good nonetheless.
Heart or head? Total accuracy or inaccurate Master? Flawed beauty or beatiful intone? Absolute warmth vs absolute projection?
Flipping about..need your help!
Nick
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-10-28 22:29
It's easy, Nick --- get rid of both the Selmer and Buffet, go to your friendly local megamart and buy a "First Act" or "Band Now" or whatever CSO (Clarinet-Shaped Object), pocket all the money you've saved, and be satisfied with having horrible tone and lousy intonation both! Together in one clarinet! No choices! No decisions!
See, that was easy, huh?
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Author: MikeG
Date: 2010-08-29 00:34
This is an old thread, hoping someone is still interested...
I have one of these, purchased it new in the 70's when I was playing clarinet in college. Same thing as described, it is a buffet r-13 with this brown briefcase style case that says Limited Edition inside the top cover of the case.
Also it is a dead ringer for how someone else here described the sound - fabulous tone, especially a nice full round tone in the lowest register. But always was hard to play it in tune.
The serial # on mine seems to trace it to the early 70's, although I think it was '78 or '79 when I bought it (new) from a shop in Portland, Oregon.
I haven't played for many years and just recently took it out to play again to start helping my youngest son w/ his (ahem) trumpet lessons.
I am curious to learn more about this particular model. Anyone have any more info?
I'm a newbie to this forum.
Thanks,
Mike G
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Author: nickma
Date: 2010-08-29 09:00
It was just the case - the R13 was in fact just an ordinary R13. Personally I love them. Some of the older ones are great, some of the newer ones are marvellous. If you like it that's the main thing. People rave about the 50s and 60s instruments, but I've had ones from the 70s and 80s that are lovely, and a wonderful Vintage from 2003.
Nick
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-08-29 15:06
There have been really fine Buffets made as well as poor ones through out the years. One can say that about any brand I suppose. The wood changes over the years and some get better and some get worse and we all know there's a shortage of well aged, and new, African Black Wood used to make the fine clarinets. I still play on my Buffet A clarinet that I bought in the early 60s, 92 thousand something series. Though I bought a new Selmer Bb four years ago I have still not found an A that plays better than the old Buffet I use. I do use a Backun bell and barrel though, I use them on all my clarinet including the Selmer. I sort of remember the Limited Edition model but I can't remember much about it. I don't recall anything different about how they played only that there was something visual about them, maybe just a different logo or something on the case. Look at it carefully and see if you can see something different from the usual. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: MikeG
Date: 2010-08-29 17:14
Thanks folks, for the quick replies.
There isn't anything different about the instrument that I can see, I would agree it is just a "normal" R13 in the Limited Edition case.
It's a serial number 121xxx. I put that in on the Buffet site and it does not have it in the database, but then other references shows this as being produced in 1971, probably spring of 1971. I guess the Buffet online database is not complete for all #'s?
Found some more info on it. I was a college student at the time and my folks helped purchase it. Sure enough being savers of everything, they still had the original receipts and even some correspondence relating to it.
We bought the clarinet brand new in March 1980 from a shop in Portland. I guess it must have sat either on the shelf there or somewhere in inventory all that time. It was definitely new at the time of purchase.
There was some question even then about what the Limited Edition designation meant, and so my mother kept written record of a phone call she made to the New York distributor who confirmed it was an R13 produced in 1971, but not otherwise a special model in any way.
At any rate, I am happy to be back playing again. Just playing along with my son and this has also inspired some light practice. I am pretty rusty after all these years, but it is fun anyway trying to hack my way through some classics :-)
The clarinet itself still sounds great. At the time I bought it I remember I tried many different Buffet's and picked this one specifically. I had a Selmer (not certain which model) prior to that.
Thanks again folks. If anyone is curious let me know and I could send along a picture of that Limited Edition case!
Mike G
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Author: Wes
Date: 2010-08-29 18:58
In the 90s, I bought a new, old stock "Limited Edition" 1971 Buffet R13 from a store in my neighborhood. It was a fortunate purchase as the store was later burned down by a crazy bagel shop owner next door trying to get insurance money. He was caught and given 20 years. The clarinet was, and is, generally a little low in pitch but with a good sound. At first, a 64mm barrel worked fine but, after continuous use for a few years, the pitch came up a bit and a 65mm barrel worked best. The second register upper left hand was a bit high in pitch.
The best solution has been to use a 65mm Chadash barrel, which seems to make the overall sound a little bit brighter, as well as getting the upper register left hand down in better tune. Since the lower register left hand notes were a shade low, the affected left hand tone holes were slightly undercut to help them get a bit higher, which does not change the upper register pitch.
The case is inconveniently too large and has been replaced. A removeable insert in black plush to the original "Limited Edition" case converts it into a nice double case for Bb and A. Good luck!!
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Author: knkujac
Date: 2013-06-05 18:05
I have two buffet limited editions...they were purchase somewhere in the 70's from local music stores the year Buffet ditched their distribureship program to small insignificant stores....they both came with the large briefcase cases with "limited edition " tag inside....but the cases were black, not brown....I remember they cost $250 apiece.....I might be dumb but so dumb as to pass up a deal like this....also got an "anniversary " model same time same deal which was traded for an e flat which got traded in for a c clarinet (noblet) to play around with oboe music (no transposition) But I digressed...what I wanted to mention is that one of the models was an r13 with LTD stamped upper joint just below the logo....the other is an S1 with LTD stamped above the logo.....funny nobody has mentioned yet the LTD stamp on the clarinets.....seems it would not be a real limited edition unless it was stamped as so. they are both excellent ...they seem smoother and capable of greater expansion in volume when pushed compared to my friends R13s. I seem to remember looking into this LTD business years ago and was under the impression talking to a buffet rep that they were assembled in England but this is maybe just bogus
nealk@centurytel.net
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Author: Garth Libre
Date: 2013-06-05 18:25
The Buddha himself was meditating under the bodhi tree, having resisted every temptation and only moments away from his eternal Nirvana. Images of beautiful women, lush verdant fields and exotic foods flashed before him, and he resisted all these temptations to leave "the path". Suddenly a Buffet R13 appeared before him and he tumbled back into earthly pleasures.
Garth, 305-981-4705. garthlibre@yahoo.com
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