 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-05-27 20:33
I was just wondering, when someone goes about 'optimizing' their setup. I'd assume it's done "get a good mouthpiece first, then get a good barrel to match that mouthpiece". But I was wondering if it's possible/recommended to go the other way around?
If you were in the market for a new 'setup', would you buy the best clarinet you found, then find a good barrel, then a good mouthpiece, or would you find the best mouthpiece, then the best clarinet, then the best barrel . . . but then maybe the best clarinet wasn't actually the best clarinet, but just the best stock 'barrel' on the clarinet . . . . then again, I've heard from many people that when you get a new clarinet, you should try to find a new mouthpiece to match to it as your 'old' mouthpiece was matched to your 'old' clarinet . . . . kinda wants to make your head explode, don't it?
How, or in what order, would someone go about doing it? (not asking for myself, as I have a setup that brings a smile to my face, but just wondering in general . . .)
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-05-27 21:31
Alexi,
You've got the whole thing backwards --- see, you start by buying the WORST clarinet (which includes its stock barrel) and WORST mouthpiece available (generally the stock mouthpiece that came with the clarinet) --- then you upgrade components one-by-one, starting with the mouthpiece, then the instrument. Finally, if you're still unhappy or have excess money, you start searching for Holy Grail barrels, ligatures, swabs, case humidifiers, reed flavoring agents, etc.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-05-27 21:40
I think that if you find a really "special" clarinet, it will immediately jump out at you, no matter what mouthpiece or barrel you have on it.
When you eventually upgrade the mouthpiece and/or barrel it will only make it that much better....GBK
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-05-27 21:49
Ah! So you start with the mouthpiece on a junker to see how much of a difference that mouthpeice would make on the junker. Then you choose a new clarinet (and barrel) based on that mouthpiece. THEN the fun begins . . . . . . . I see now. Thanks Dave!
Just wondering which got changed first . . . the chicken or the egg. Now I know.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Henry
Date: 2004-05-27 22:01
I think you should start with the reed;
that's the first thing you obviously need.
The mouthpiece is next, just believe me.
(The bell and the barrel deceive me.)
The horn then comes last, that's my creed!
Henry
Post Edited (2004-06-02 20:53)
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-05-27 22:07
Alexi -
The rule of importance is that the closer to your mouth it is, the more important it is.
Most important, by far, is you -- your breath, your mouth cavity, your soft palate, your tongue and your lips.
After that comes the reed. It's what makes the tone.
Then the mouthpiece, then the barrel, the upper joint, the lower joint and the bell.
Of course, changes in the bell can make a difference, but it's much more subtle than changing mouthpieces, and changing reeds makes an even bigger difference.
So -- you spend most of the time working on yourself. Unfortunately, this is slow work, and people are always looking for something magic to make them sound better.
If you have a bad mouthpiece, it certainly helps to get a better one, and if you have money to spend, getting, say, a matched Greg Smith mouthpiece and barrel will make it easier to do what you want to do. Getting a Smith mouthpiece and matched barrel, matched to a Brannenized R-13 will be even better.
But that only makes it easier to do what you want to do, and can already do. A new mouthpiece won't transform your playing. Time spent in building your embouchure and refining your concept of tone is what will make that transformation. Learning to adjust reeds wouldn't hurt, either. I'd rather play a Vito plastic mouthpiece with great reeds than a $300 handmade mouthpiece with a lousy reed.
Larry Combs could put his mouthpiece on a Bundy, and you and I probably couldn't tell the difference. A good player sounds good on even the minimum setup. A better setup only makes it easier to do what you can already do.
It's great fun to talk about equipment, but the real work, and the real improvement, comes in the practice room.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Henry
Date: 2004-05-27 22:14
I am delighted to see that Ken Shaw and I agree on the importance of the reed and mouthpiece, if nothing else!
Henry
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-05-27 23:16
Quote:
If you have a bad mouthpiece, it certainly helps to get a better one, and if you have money to spend, getting, say, a matched Greg Smith mouthpiece and barrel will make it easier to do what you want to do. I was just wondering in general, however I do now have a GREAT Greg Smith mouthpiece. And it was a bit of an odd, but pleasantly surprising match to a barrel that I had previously owned. The mouthpiece was VERY responsive (because I had asked for a very responsive mouthpeice, and the man sure kept his word about sending me some responsive ones!) And it was SO responsive I could barely control it. But then I realized I did have that Bartolai barrel that I had once deemed "too resistant". And it's now a match made in heaven! Kudos to Greg Smith for making me a very happy player!
I was just wondering in general because I see so many people doing so many different things. I was trying to figure out what exactly is one of the BETTER ways (if not the BEST).
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-05-27 23:22
Hi,
For what it is worth, I have used my same Portnoy BP02 (with backup from a Buffet C Crown, a VD 2RV, or a Stowell Wells Schenider 2) for almost 30 years. Also the same Luyben, Bonade, or Gigliotti ligature on about 6 different clarinets that I have had as my #1 at various times during those years.
These instruments have included a Master Modele, a Series 9*, a LeBlanc Dynamic 2, a Leblanc L200, a Series 9, and finally a Buffet Academy. All have different bore dimensions but the MP choice always seems to come out about the same. The L200 is the best in tune of the whole bunch with any combination of reed, MP, and barrel.
I have several Scott, Moennig, Chadash, Butler, and Scott barrels. All work fine; that there is a specific barrel for a certain make of clarinet is beyond my ability to differentiate. For reeds, still using La Voz MH, VD Blue Box 3 and 3 1/2, and Rico Grands. Why change when you are using the ATG
I am at the point in my playing life where I look at intonation of the combinations all the time and play around with different setups using what I have. I assume I have gone past the point of needing to try any more MPs or barrels although I am always on the lookout for classic ligatures (GBK, John Moses, and Dave S. know about my lust).
As mentioned before reed and MP first!
HRL
PS On the golf course, I play a very respectable game with the same Tommy Armour Titanium Irons, Callaway woods, and Ping putter that I have had for many years.
PSS I am looking at a Taylormade Rescue #4 for the rough (which is very long at this time of the year). Hey, maybe clarinet playing should be like golf; only 14 clubs in your bag (in clarinet playing, everyone could be allowed something like 3 MPs, 2 ligtures, and 2 brands of reeds).
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Author: RAMman
Date: 2004-05-28 00:14
Blimey!
If people spent as much time working on their technique and musical ideas as they do on tinkering with their 'setups', then the world would have a good deal more great clarinet players.
At the end of the day, you have to be able to play the thing. Forget 'should I change the mouthpiece first?' and, as one great teacher is fond of saying, 'blow the thing and move your fingers!'
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-05-28 00:37
RAMman wrote:
> Blimey!
>
> If people spent as much time working on their technique and
> musical ideas as they do on tinkering with their 'setups', then
> the world would have a good deal more great clarinet players.
True. But tinkering with our setups is just SO MUCH FUN! It's like the guy that keeps adjusting his carboratur to try to get a feeling of more torque or horsepower. Maybe he should just get behind the wheel and drive somewhere instead of 'wasting his life' with that damned engine! But it's so fun!!!!!!
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: RAMman
Date: 2004-05-28 11:43
Alexi,
hehehe, I'll take your word for that.
Personally, I would rather give a great recital than sit in a music shop trying mouthpieces.
My post above, now that I read it again, and it's not VERY late at night, seems to be a little hostile. That's not intended!
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-05-28 13:59
RAMman,
The world doesn't need any more great clarinet players --- there are already far more than there are gigs for them to play or audiences to listen to them. However, the more equipment people buy for their clarinets, the more the musical economy improves, which is good for everyone. So....
DON'T PRACTICE ---- BUY STUFF!
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-05-28 14:18
lol! Way to twist the logic to our favor! I'm not wasting time trying out setups and tinkering, I'm boosting the musical economy!
Just how I wasn't 'late' for my first class, I was just very early for my second.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: RAMman
Date: 2004-05-28 14:18
In a word, rubbish.
You can never have too many great clarinet players.
Good players spur each other on, and the bar gets higher and higher.
Indeed, there are more players than gigs. However, the better everyone gets, the better those gigs get. The better they get, the more people attend. This improves the 'musical economy'.
DON'T BUY STUFF - PRACTISE!
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-05-28 16:37
RAMman said:
> However, the better everyone gets, the better those gigs get.
Live music gigs are drying up faster than water on Mars.
Each year (just in this country alone), conservatories and universities graduate hundreds of clarinetists whose playing ability borders on the unbelieveable.
The sad fact is that most will never earn a dime by strictly just playing the clarinet.
A struggling musician looking for work is not a pretty sight...GBK
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Author: RAMman
Date: 2004-05-28 16:38
That's not much of an argument really is it?
Alexi, I hope you can see my point, even if some don't agree with it. The answer doesn't always (or often...) appear in buying new bits and pieces for your instrument. There is no miracle cure, only hard work.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-05-29 00:47
I definitely see your point. But for me, studying to be a very good amateur clarinetist, I don't mind one bit spending my time on tinkering with the clarinet. It all depends on what your goal is. If your goal is to become a professional and get the gigs, then the majority of your time SHOULD be spent practicing and trying to reach your peak performance. My goal is to have fun playing the clarinet. So I can afford to give up that practice time for other things. Because the consequences don't affect my goal (having fun). If I manage to get good enough to occasionally play a part-time thing here or there, that's just a side-benefit to my 'having fun'.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-05-29 02:05
Alexi,
I though you said a month or so ago that you we going to be a performance major? This was the string
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=140827&t=140754
Did I get something wrong here? You are not going to do that now? But instead you said "My goal is to have fun playing the clarinet. So I can afford to give up that practice time for other things. Because the consequences don't affect my goal (having fun). If I manage to get good enough to occasionally play a part-time thing here or there, that's just a side-benefit to my 'having fun'."
HRL
Post Edited (2004-05-29 02:12)
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-05-29 02:28
Two things hank,
Firstly, after reviewing my current financial situation (and with some unexpected changes in the household and family situation - feel free to email if you are curious, just don't feel the need to post the non-clarinet stuff on this board) I won't be able to declare music performance as a major and be able to afford to take out another two years in the delay of getting my degree and going towards a career. However, rest assured, I WILL get my music degree. It just can't begin next semester like I had wanted.
Secondly, even though I WILL be a clarinet performance major, I still only want to play for fun and MAYBE getting a part-time gig here or there. I still intend to be a math teacher with clarinet as a hobby. The reason for getting the degree would be solely to expand my knowledge and experience. Just as someone who is interested in history might go to a university to take history classes, I'm interested in playing the clarinet. So I'd go to a university (now in the future) to take music classes and take lessons.
Alexi
PS - Plus, if I practice between then and now, I might be able to shock the university music department as a first year music major being mostly self-taught! And grab a good chair in the orchestra! WOO HOO!
US Army Japan Band
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-05-29 03:04
Thanks. I am definitely bummed that the 'official' study of music will have to be put off for a bit, but I know it'll happen eventually. And considering that I'm not planning on my clarinet playing to be the sole breadwinner of my household (Whew! What a mistake THAT would be!), I am ok with putting it off for little while longer.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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