 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: rc_clarinetlady
Date: 2004-04-22 19:11
Hi Everyone,
I am new to the BBoard and hope someone can help me. I majored in music 23 years but quit playing about 20 years ago. In Sept. 03 I started playing in our new community orchestra and have worked my practice time up to 3-5 hours a day. I am loving it ! My problem is that my right thumb has now become painful, is swollen and it feels like there is nerve involvement. I think rest and ice are obvious remedies but not for long. I am very curious about the thumb rests that are on the market to buy. Our principal uses a Kooiman and he likes it. I play a Buffet R-13 with the standard thumb rest and don't really like the idea of drilling additional holes in it like one of the models I saw requires. Has anyone else experienced this and what do you think about the different thumb rests? Are there any out there that don't require extra holes to be drilled ? Thanks, Rebecca
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Author: Wicked Good ★2017
Date: 2004-04-22 19:52
I simply use a short length of 1/2 inch (inside diameter) surgical tubing slipped over the thumb rest on my R-13. It realy makes a difference in comfort and my own durability.
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Author: RAMman
Date: 2004-04-22 20:21
On the post above....
I used an 'Etude' thumb rest (and it helped with my hand position) but although it doesn't need new holes to be drilled at first (edited...what I wrote the first time made no sense!), the screws supplied are so unsuitable that they actually damaged the back of both my clarinets.
I ended up having to have the mess filled and redrilled...putting the holes in a different place.
He does make a 'professional version' but it looks like something out of a Robocop or Terminator movie!
At the advice of my teacher I had my thumb rest set so it slopes up from left to right, and a larger bass plate added to spread the load. It work SO much better!
Danny.
Post Edited (2004-04-22 20:29)
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Author: Matt Locker
Date: 2004-04-22 20:25
Rebecca:
Do a search for Etude and/or Kooiman. There have been discussions about this item. Some people love them, some don't. I fit into the "don't category.
I have had my TR moved higher on the lower joint. I played with the TR flipped for about a year because I didn't really want to drill holes until I was convinced it would help. I have been very happy with the results since moving it though.
I would say that if you are having thumb issues you may want to purchase a neck strap. Get one that is easily adjustable and that has a hook so you can easily remove it from the clarinet. They are well worth the money for issues such as this. Also consider flipping the TR as a test and then have it moved higher if you think it will help. Search for this also as it has been discussed before as well.
MOO,
Matt
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Author: rc_clarinetlady
Date: 2004-04-22 21:05
Thanks for all the input. I've been on the Kooiman website and the Maestro TR is the professional one that requires the drilling of new screw holes. It's also the one our principal uses in our orchestra. I have to say that of the two, the Maestro and the Etude, the Maestro looks to be the most developed and the most adjustable. It does look like something out of a Robocop movie! I'm not sure I want all that on the back of my clarinets but I'm also in some terrible pain and have to do something. I will try flipping my TR. Hadn't ever heard that one before. I think I'll continue to do some more research on the subject before I drill any holes. I can see that there are pros and cons to both and I suppose it all comes down to how much pain I can deal with. I really need to know if this is just discomfort or if I'm doing any damage by continuing to play with a bum thumb. Another issue with the Kooiman is that it changes the hand position and one would have to get used to that. Has anyone else had this kind of pain and what did you do?
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2004-04-22 21:14
Another novel solution (wish I had thought of it) is to attach another thumbrest above your current one, and connect the two with a length of surgical tubing.
It looks a kludge, but really works.
You could always attach a standard thumbrest closer to the middle of your instrument with super glue (the heavier gel variety) and remove it with solvent if you chose.
I use the Etude on my hard rubber Ridenour and love it.
With a little 'Mole skin' from the footcare aisle in the pharmacy, it's very comfortable and was inexpensive.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-04-22 21:19
As Matt L and others have said, we have discussed this question frequently, you may find my name there! For me, the usual TR position is too low, IMHO, the thumb and first finger should approximate a [normal] "pinch" orientation, which also improves the right little finger access to the B/E touch. My no-cost, no-new-holes solution is to invert the TR and use a rubber TR "cushion", at least for a trial. Caution, if doing it yourself, dont lose the small screws !! Luck, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: davor
Date: 2004-04-22 21:24
Hi,
I think that no thumb rest will help you if you do not shorten your practice a bit. You are lucky if thumb pain is your only problem after 20 years pause, and practising 3-5 hours. Try to be moderate!
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Author: Henry
Date: 2004-04-22 21:46
I agree that simply inverting the thumb rest and covering the thumb rest with a rubber guard can make a big difference. This conversion has become "permanent" for me and it has helped a great deal. As Don said, the RH E/B pinkie key now feels much more natural. (I'm still not sure, though, that my TR position is truly optimal.)
Henry
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-04-22 21:53
Invert the existing t.r., put a foam pad on it and reduce your practice length. In my experience surgical rubber doesn't really help that much. If you walked or exercised 3-4 hours a day you'd probably have pain too.
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Author: rc_clarinetlady
Date: 2004-04-22 21:59
Does the pain develop from the position of the hand or I should say the improper position of the hand or is it the weight of the instrument or both? Just FYI...I didn't just start playing 3-5 hours a day right off. I did work up to it. At first I did well to play 5 Minutes! My family all agree with you davor. I am just so happy to be playing again and am having so much fun working up all of the solos and etudes that I used to play. I break up the pratice time in 2-3 sessions. I'm really curious about the changed hand position now on these thumb rests. It makes sense to raise the thumb level to around the level of the first finger. This is the first time I've used the BB and you all are so nice to help and have good ideas. Thanks. Rebecca
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Author: rc_clarinetlady
Date: 2004-04-22 22:02
Okay, I can see that the practice time is an issue. How long do you all practice a day? I am trying to get my " sound " back and I'm so close. Rebecca
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Author: Henry
Date: 2004-04-22 22:20
Rebecca...As far as length of practice time is concerned, I don't think that there are any fast rules. Personally, I find it hard to exceed more than 1.5-2 hours a day (I'm an amateur only!). Whenever you start to feel any pain, however, I think you should stop immediately until you feel comfortable again, which may be until the next day. Don't overdo it! But I do think from experience that the position of the TR can be very important indeed.
Henry
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Author: Joel Clifton
Date: 2004-04-22 22:49
I think a neckstrap would help immensely. It will easily cut the weight on your thumb in half.
Also, it helped me when I moved the thumbrest all the way in. I thought the reverse would be true, but when I moved it in I had much less pain.
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"You have to play just right to make dissonant music sound wrong in the right way"
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Author: rc_clarinetlady
Date: 2004-04-22 23:25
I have a neckstrap and just started using it again when my thumb flared up but my problem with it is that I can't seem to hold my clarinet at the proper angle with it. It's a pretty nice strap...Neotech. Someone suggested this earlier on too. It seems to hold it at too close an angle to my body...not enough angled away to get the proper mouthpiece placement. I may just need to work with it.
I did turn the thumb rest around. I can't tell yet if it is going to help because my thumb is still sore from yesterday. I do feel the difference in hand placement and I think I like it. I think it might even be better to move the thumb even further up. I can see where there is a possible design flaw in most clarinets by placing the TR where it is. I'll have to check it out for awhile and see what I think after a week or so of this TR turn around. Rebecca
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Author: rc_clarinetlady
Date: 2004-04-22 23:28
I forgot to ask Joel what you you mean by moving the TR " in"? I've moved it up. But what do mean by " in" or " all the way in "? Rebecca
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Author: Avie
Date: 2004-04-23 00:36
I often wondered why they design an uncomfortable thumb rest on clarinets when most of a clarinets design is really quite ingenious. I never did find out why but I saw a molded rubber thumb rest in a music store one day that slips over the thumb rest and now my thumb is never the reason I have to stop playing. Maybe something like this would also help you and possibly prevent the nerve from being irritated. Its a very inexpensive investment. Of course now I feel pain in my right wrist! LOL. I may have to try raising the thumb rest eventually.
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Author: msroboto
Date: 2004-04-23 02:05
I used the TK Etude thumbrest for a while and I also had to eventually remove it because it basically ripped up the back of the clarinet. I had those holes filled and the thumbrest moved up a bit. I use a BG thumbrest cushion (??). They call it a thumbrest in the catalog but it just slips over the existing thumbrest. It does help spread the weight a bit.
I tried the neck strap and did not really like that but if my arm is really bothering me I still try it.
I find most gadgets like the TK have other side effects like changing your hand position and it's just not worth it unless it's the only way you can play.
Even though I don't currently use/like the TK thumbrest I would probably do the same thing all over again and use it. I had a lot of hand pain and numbness. It was so painful that after a 2 hour rehearsal I would have a hard time sleeping because the pain was so great.
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Author: MarinesGirl
Date: 2004-04-23 02:12
Do what I do.. It's easy and cheap. Cut a pencil grip in half and slide it on the thumbrest
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Author: Joel Clifton
Date: 2004-04-23 03:19
By moving it in, I mean move it toward the thumb rest base (or up).
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"You have to play just right to make dissonant music sound wrong in the right way"
Post Edited (2004-04-23 03:21)
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Author: CrazyCanuck
Date: 2004-04-23 04:20
Just thought i'd throw in my input
After 6 years of clarinet playing and a few more years of intense competition rock climbing, I lost feeling in my right arm after writing or playing after about 30 minutes. I tried everything including physiotherapy, accupuncture, and even considered surgery (to have my ulnar nerve relocated--the funny-bone one).
I purchased a Kooiman Maestro for about $250 Canadian and it is absolutely the only thing that has allowed me to play. Watching the tech drill the holes and install it was the scariest thing I have ever seen done to my clarinet, but it was 100% worth it. It took about 2 weeks to get the hang of it (and this after not playing for about 3 years too) and since then my playing has improved immensely. No need for a neckstrap and I find that my hand is stable enough to allow me to move my fingers much quicker.
Few tips for those getting one of these. The mounting screws really suck. I epoxied them in place after finding them jiggle loose and 6 months later, no problems. Also, having a physiotherapist or orthotic specialist help to adjust it initially is essential. I have see one other player with one of these, and he told me that he adjusted it himself, and didn't like it... mine took 2 hours to get in exactly the right position to keep my wrist in a neutral position.
Long story short, these thumbrests are amazing for anybody who has difficulty with their right arm. The plastic version is great for kids who have bad hand position or a short thumb.
Nick
PS if anybody has any other questions, let me know, email above
Post Edited (2004-04-23 04:24)
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2004-04-23 04:41
Rebecca,
If you're having problems with the Neotech, I'd suggest the simple little "Claricord" neckstrap. It's elastic, and has velcro. I love mine when my arm is flaring up from playing too much Bulgarian music in the key of A and my right arm has problems.
I do have a question though...
Is your pain weight-of-clarinet-related or is it just abrasion from the thumbrest itself? If it's abrasion, the simple little rubbery things to slip over the TR work great, if it's weight related try the Claricord.
Katrina
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Author: rc_clarinetlady
Date: 2004-04-23 05:33
Hi again everyone!
I turned the TR upside down on my clarinet ( didn't lose the screws ) , used the neckstrap and played for about 3 hours tonight. Those changes helped but I do think it's a bigger problem than these small changes are going to be able to make effectively over a long period of time. I suppose I should have also mentioned that I have chronic Lyme disease which affects my joints and this may be aggrevating my thumb and wrist. I do think the Kooiman Maestro is the most logical answer to my problem at this point...unless someone knows of a different model that works as well without drilling the holes. Thanks Nick for your input on the Maestro. What kind of epoxy did you use on the screws? It doesn't sound like the Etude is the one I want. Several people have mentioned the problem with the poor screws on that model. Any more negative or positive input on the Maestro??
To answer your question Katrina, my pain comes from the weight of the instruments. I play an A about as long as my Bb which is an even heavier instrument with a worse hand position in my opinion. How does the Claricord differ from the Neotech?
Rebecca
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Author: Matt Locker
Date: 2004-04-23 11:52
FWIW, I do not like the claricord because it's not easily adjustable and you can't easily remove it from the clarinet when you want to put it down. It's just elastic & velcro. If you want to lengthen it by 1/4", you must completely remove the velcro to make the adjustment. It's sheer luck if you actually get the length you want. If you want to put the clarinet down to take a break you must either remove the strap from the clarinet, pull it over your head so as not to lose your length, or undo it. Removing from the clarinet is difficult if you have a TR pad.
Basically I think the Neotech is much better. It sounds to me like you just need to lengthen it a bit.
MOO,
Matt
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Author: Bob A
Date: 2004-04-23 14:35
"I suppose I should have also mentioned that I have chronic Lyme disease which affects my joints and this may be aggrevating my thumb and wrist.
Well, looks like we have another candidate for our Bass Clarinet section. That was my decision after fighting this same problem when RA got me. Gave my "C" to my grandson, have two Bb's mostly unplayed in the closet, an Alto sit on the floor of the practice room and I sometimes struggle with it---But the Bass with a strap and floor peg is my own personal solution to this problem. (As long as there are no "flares.") Hang in, and shorten your practice times. I do good most times to get 45minutes.
Bob A
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Author: coasten1
Date: 2004-04-23 16:33
You might think about getting some free weights or heavy soup cans and start doing some arm exercises to strengthen the muscles in your wrists and arms. Build up your arm muscles will help with holding the weight of the clarinet.
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Author: Chris Chaloner
Date: 2004-04-23 18:03
I use the elasticated one with velcro fastening - it has no name on it, but it has two slots - nominally one for the Bflat and one for the A. It takes about half the weight off, I suppose, and eliminates the pain in MY right arm! I don't find the velcro adjuster a problem . .... and in any case, it was cheap
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