 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Wayne Thompson
Date: 2004-03-04 16:08
There are old bass clarinets out there that have bigger bells than are normal now. I can't show you a picture, but about a month ago on eBay there was a low C Buffet for sale that had a larger bell and had at least two vents on the bell. As I remember, bids went to about $2500 but the seller wanted more and it didn't sell. And a note here in the archives reminded me that Dennis Smylie wrote an Article in the September 2002 'Clarinet', 'Approaching the Bass Clarinet', and there is a picture there of him with a bass with a bell extending as high as the left had pinky keys with at least 4 vents on it.
Does anyone know about this style of bass?
WT
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-03-04 17:22
Wayne - I looked [will study later] at D Symlie's bass and writings, great!. I'm quite sure it began life as a VG Low C Buffet?/Selmer?, and has been "high-pro-craftsman" extended further, maybe 2 or 3 notes lower yet., even more keyings !! Why not ask him, most of us just love to talk instruments, and he has said a great deal in 2 pages [so for] . As to larger bells, my Sel 33 bell is larger than an old Conn, but my very old Pedler Eb is larger yet, and has a reasonably good DRK system [2 reg. key] !!, but is not "ergonomic" for my small hands !! Interesting/educational. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: diz
Date: 2004-03-04 22:19
The bell on the bass clarinet is certainly an interesting point ... as all sounds are produced as a result of open/closed tone holes, the bell's only function is to allow the instrument's lowest note to speak. There must be, however, a discernable affect on the overall quality of the clarinet's beautiful sound. Rather like taking the bell off an English Horn and then getting the player to play ... try it next time you're in orchestra rehearsal ... the results might just surprise you.
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
Post Edited (2004-03-04 22:19)
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-03-05 02:40
Bells are a very wierd thing. I believe Luis Rossi offers to make a grenedilla bell for 1000 dollars. Not really what you're talking about, but it is along the fact that the bell has to have a major enough impact on the instrument's sound if there are going to be such products as that around.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Wayne Thompson
Date: 2004-03-05 06:22
Yes, I will ask Mr. Smylie about his horn.
About bells, a related subject, bassett extensions and their effect on the overall sound of a clarinet, is being discussed on the List recently.
I have to admit that the reason for my question was primarily because these two horns are so beautiful. I wish I had asked it before the eBay horn I mentioned fell off the completed auction list, so I could show you all.
W
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2004-03-05 12:23
Dennis Smylie is very approachable about his "Mazzeo" custom made bass clarinet. He has quite a few fine and unusual horns.
Try contacting him by email at:
dsmylie@mymailstation.com
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-03-05 15:11
I first wish to apologise for misspelling SMYlie, in a hurry, I guess? The reference to Mazzeo interested me, so I made a series of patent searches to see if there were more than the 5 [US] R M's I know of. My poor grammer also! "A preposition is a poor thing to end a sentence WITH". Answer is NO. [Foreign pats??] A source of other info re: D S's bass cl [bell etc] might be at the Natl Music Museum [formerly Shrine to Music], at U of SD. Perhaps someone there may read this and help us out, perhaps Dr Debbi Reeves may have written about this subject in her series for the ICA Journal. Quite a few of us are sufficiently interested in our "big cls" to make such worth while. Just thots in passing. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2004-03-05 15:28
sfalexi said "Not really what you're talking about, but it is along the fact that the bell has to have a major enough impact on the instrument's sound if there are going to be such products as that around."
Just because someone builds and sells something that is expensive doesn't mean that it has that large of an impact on the instrument's sound. It just means that someone (whoever buys it) believes it does. The easiest way to test the impact of the bell on the instrument's sound is to take it off. It will, of course, affect the lowest note (or two), but I think you'll be surprised to find that there is essentially no effect on the vast majority of notes.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-03-05 17:58
Don,
I think the real question is not so much the effect of having 'a bell' compared to removing it altogether, but rather, the effect of one bell design (as installed on the instrument) compared to the effect of another bell as installed. Certainly on bass as well as Bb soprano clarinets, the intonation and tone quality of the bottom few chalumeau and 'long' clarion notes can be significantly affected by the bell design.
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Author: graham
Date: 2004-03-05 17:58
When I took the bell off my bass clarinet once I was amazed at the extent to which virtually all notes were affected. The degree of affect varied, increasing the closer the closing of the tube was to the bell. But a thinning of the tone was very evident in regard to very many notes, and not those merely close to the bell. It did not sound like the same instrument at all.
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Author: Wayne Thompson
Date: 2004-03-07 21:13
This is what Dennis Smylie has written me:
Dear Wayne Thompson, Thank you for your email about that instrument. Originally, it had been built by Buffet to low Eb in the 1930's and owned by the late Rosario Mazzeo, who had played in the Boston Symphony for many years, retiring in the 1960's. For a number of years after that he lived in Carmel, CA, where he continued to teach. Mazzeo also developed into quite a creative innovator of key systems, mechanisms and clarinet designs. In the early 1940's, the BSO was scheduled to play one of the first US performances of the Shostakovich 7th Sym. , "The Lenin- grad". The bass clarinet writing, some of it soloistic, descended to low C# and C, deeper than his Buffet's Eb. He didn't want to get a new and longer bass cl. in order to play these pitches. Instead, he went to the flute maker, Powell in Boston, where he worked with one of their craftsman on developing an uptutned bell-tube extension for the added range. The
bell is originally Buffet's, the tube leading to it and its key work were all Powell-made. At the point where the ring is located atop the the lower joint a brace was attached to the bell's back surface. This positioning resulted in more tube length than was needed to "only" reach written C and the range descends to Bb (Ab concert). During the 1950's Mazzeo became associated with Selmer as a consultant and stopped playing Buffet instruments. This bass cl. was sold to John Marshall in the Boston area, who played primarily for enjoyment in summertime bands advocationally. I had corresponded with Mazzeo while he lived in California. He told me about this Buffet and to whom he had sold it. I met Mr. Marshall and saw the the instrument at his home in MA during the 1970's. He passed away some years later and his widow offered to sell me the bass cl. for a very reasonable
cost. Much restorative work was done by Tom Yaeh in Los Angeles and another neck eventually found for it. Buffet bass cls. from this time are often sought after. This is a good one from that era, which I feel very fortunate to have and to play, regardless of it's lowest notes and unusual addition. I visited Mazzeo in the '80's at his CA home and played it. He hadn't seen this for decades. The Khatchaturian piano concerto includes includes soloistic use of the bass cl. , from which I played. He had recorded it w/William Kapel, pn. & the BSO on this inst. years before-a touching moment ! Bye! Dennis S.
I responded:
Dennis,
Thank you very much for your note. This is an interesting story. Could you say that the Bb extension affects the low C either positively or negatively? My own small connection with Rosario Mazzeo is that I have studied with Frank Renk (San Diego Symphony) who has studied with Mazzeo. I have enjoyed Mazzeo's book, The Clarinet.
Would you mind if I forward your story to the Clarinet Bulletin Board that I mentioned?
Thanks much,
Wayne T.
And Dennis:
Dear Wayne, Glad to hear of your connection through another to Mazzeo, who seems to have been quite an interesting, knowledgeable man. The low B & Bb on this model when unused may serve another purpose as vent holes for the C, C# & D just above. Those 3 notes tune and sound well. The 2 lowest notes tend towards being under pitch, especially the Bb bell tone. Of course, there's no writing today for them, but sometimes I enjoy putting a note down an octave, more often the B natural. As I may've mentioned before, the lowest notes and this design are very interesting, but this instrument as a whole is what I especially appreciate. At times, I've wished I could take some of the tubing and keywork off and have less weight to carry around-not a realistic possibility. You're welcome to use any part of this or the earlier email for that cl. board. Take care!
Dennis
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Author: Wayne Thompson
Date: 2004-03-16 15:30
I have continued to poke around the archives for interesting bass clarinet stories and picures. In this thread of two years ago: http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=95173&t=95142, Ken Shaw asks about an old C bass that was on eBay at the time, and an interesting discussion follows.
Can anyone recommend other sites on the web with bass photos? Ken, did you keep a copy of this C instrument photo?
WT
Post Edited (2004-03-16 15:30)
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-03-16 15:37
Quote:
sfalexi said "Not really what you're talking about, but it is along the fact that the bell has to have a major enough impact on the instrument's sound if there are going to be such products as that around."
Just because someone builds and sells something that is expensive doesn't mean that it has that large of an impact on the instrument's sound. It just means that someone (whoever buys it) believes it does. The easiest way to test the impact of the bell on the instrument's sound is to take it off. It will, of course, affect the lowest note (or two), but I think you'll be surprised to find that there is essentially no effect on the vast majority of notes. Good point noted here. I'll try it out with my borrowed bass later on today or tomorrow and post my results. (emphasis on MY because MY results may be the same results that YOU would get)
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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