Advertising and Web Hosting on Woodwind.Org!

Woodwind.OrgThe Clarinet BBoardThe C4 standard

 
  BBoard Equipment Study Resources Music General    
 
 New Topic  |  Go to Top  |  Go to Topic  |  Search  |  Help/Rules  |  Smileys/Notes  |  Log In   Newer Topic  |  Older Topic 
 Glotin Chedeville Mouthpieces/Why the high price?
Author: bkmorton 
Date:   2004-03-07 20:44

I am shopping around for a mouthpiece and I want to get one that will out last me and put my grand children through college:) Does anyone know about the Glotin mouthpiece?Why is it so expensive if it does come close to the old mouthpieces? Is it worth buying that or just saving the money for a used Chedeville or kasper on ebay? OR What is a good professional mouthpiece that is top top top quality. I did a search as I am suppose to do and didn't find what I was looking for.

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Glotin Chedeville Mouthpieces/Why the high price?
Author: sfalexi 
Date:   2004-03-07 21:10

The glotin mouthpiece IS very expensive. They market it as pretty much the closest you can get to the old chedeville material. Last I saw it was around 300 dollars.

As for the old kaspars and chedevilles you find on Ebay, those are also very expensive. And you're paying for a mouthpiece that you've never played, don't even KNOW if you'll like. Yes they have a great history and regarded as excellent mouthpieces, but keep in mind that there are PLENTY (and I mean PLENTY) of pros that don't [play on vintage kaspars and chedevilles. My instructor owns a vintage kaspar and admits that while it's good, it's not the best in his collection and he can't see the reason for the price.

My recommendation, if you want a very good chedeville or kaspar mouthpiece, is to check out Greg Smith's mouthpieces (he is a sponsor on the BBoard and you can find his link to the right under "Mouthpieces & Barrels"). I had a good mouthpiece. And I tried his mouthpieces and was VERY surprised at the difference in sound and how much better than my old one it was! I now play one and am very happy with it (if you do a search on them on the BBoard you'll find MANY satisfied customers). A great person to deal with and he'll help you find the right one for you!

If you really truly want a vintage chedeville or kaspar, keep in mind that the facing may not suit you and you may have to end up sending it to someone to have it refaced anyway. So total cost, lets say 300 for the mouthpiece, between 30 - 100 refacing (depending on who you send it to). Or you can try greg smith mouthpieces for the cost of shipping, and if you happen to like one, keep it and the total cost will be somewhere right around 200 dollars.

Good luck.

Alexi

PS - I do know that Greg's mouthpieces aren't the ONLY top quality mouthpieces, but if you're so interested in a chedeville or kaspar, his are regarded as some of the finest chedeville/kaspar copies out there right now.

Platoon Sergeant
US Army Japan Band


Reply To Message
 
 Re: Glotin Chedeville Mouthpieces/Why the high price?
Author: Sylvain 
Date:   2004-03-07 21:47

It seems tome that for 300USD you can purchase a hand made mouthpiece.
Among a very strong competitor to the GLotin is the Chadash Hill mouthpiece blank which I think is cheaper althoug I am not sure. They did the same thing as Glotin, researched the type of material used and created a good blank.

Greg Smith, Clark Forbes, Richard Hawkins, to name just a few, provide hand made mouthpieces of very high qulity in the 150-200$ range. Most of them are based on Zinner blanks, yet can't seem to understand why the Glotin can be so high priced for something mass produced...

If anybody has tried the mouthpice please let us know what you think.

-S

--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Glotin Chedeville Mouthpieces/Why the high price?
Author: Synonymous Botch 
Date:   2004-03-07 23:14

You could always go buy a Vandoren M30 -
And swab with disposable ten-dollar bills...

Even the better handmade stuff is a hinderance, if you can't select from several choices at a "fitting".

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Glotin Chedeville Mouthpieces/Why the high price?
Author: sfalexi 
Date:   2004-03-07 23:28

Syn Botch has a point. The vandoren M-series is (IMHO) very good, cheap, and very available. I really hit it off with an M15, but it was still not as great as my other two mouthpieces. But still, for 60 bucks, I was pleasantly surprised.

Alexi

Platoon Sergeant
US Army Japan Band


Reply To Message
 
 Re: Glotin Chedeville Mouthpieces/Why the high price?
Author: Sylvain 
Date:   2004-03-08 03:09

I think we are digressing here.
Choosing between a 65$ mass produced mpce and a 200$ handmade one can be difficult, but choosing between a 200$ handmade mouthpiece and a 300$ mass produced is a no brainer, buy the cheaper and better handmade one.

-S

--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Glotin Chedeville Mouthpieces/Why the high price?
Author: ron b 
Date:   2004-03-08 03:35

Now I'm curious...

What makes handmade mouthpieces 'hand'made? Are they actually hand-tooled or hand-finished?

- r[cool]n b -
(who's recently been playing on an old Geo Bundy 3 and lovin' it  :)

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Glotin Chedeville Mouthpieces/Why the high price?
Author: sfalexi 
Date:   2004-03-08 03:51

Most are hand-finished. I can't think of any are completely hand-made, (I'm sure GBK or others will know a few completely handmade mouthpieces), however a 'hand-made' mouthpiece is usually a mass produced blank that was hand-finished (bore, chamber, baffle, rails, tip - basically number 2. on this page).

Alexi

Platoon Sergeant
US Army Japan Band


Post Edited (2004-03-08 03:53)

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Glotin Chedeville Mouthpieces/Why the high price?
Author: GBK 
Date:   2004-03-08 04:34

Chadash-Hill mouthpieces are produced on milled (not molded) blanks by Guy Chadash.

http://www.chadashclarinet.com/mouthpiece.htm ...GBK

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Glotin Chedeville Mouthpieces/Why the high price?
Author: sfalexi 
Date:   2004-03-08 04:41

I knew you'd come through GBK![up]

Alexi

Platoon Sergeant
US Army Japan Band


Reply To Message
 
 Re: Glotin Chedeville Mouthpieces/Why the high price?
Author: theclarinetist 
Date:   2004-03-08 05:00

How about Peter Eaton mouthpieces. His website talks about them like they are very good. Has anyone tried them?

DH - theclarinetist@yahoo.com

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Glotin Chedeville Mouthpieces/Why the high price?
Author: ron b 
Date:   2004-03-08 06:36

When I hear "handmade mouthpiece" I think of wood mouthpieces. Those, I think, must have been made according to a standard pattern of some sort using boring and turning tools, etc.
So, handmade that we're talking about here is mostly shaping the lay of a standard blank to suit the individual player (?) .
The wood mouthpieces I've seen, even really old ones, look like they were made on some kind of machine. For that matter, so do old boxwood clarinets. That leads me to wonder whether hand finishing methods have changed much since the clarinet started gaining popularity.

- ron b -

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Glotin Chedeville Mouthpieces/Why the high price?
Author: graham 
Date:   2004-03-08 08:13

If hand made means using hand tools then they would be best avoided. Machine tools are what's needed, and ones with some computer assistance as well. You should however expect that the maker has dealt with all the areas of the mouthpiece, not just the lay and rails.

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Glotin Chedeville Mouthpieces/Why the high price?
Author: donald 
Date:   2004-03-08 09:43

the only Peter Eaton mouthpieces i have ever seen were junk compared to the high quality of work done by craftsmen (craftepeople?) in the US and Germany.
i am sure that someone will disagree with me and say that they are wonderful. But my "sample" includes mouthpieces sold to international level players as well as ones owned by students. While i hesitate to use the words "design flaws", i would say that the blanks were in many cases... eccentric to the extreeme.
never seen/heard/played a Glotin mouthpiece, but have been advised that the Chadash/Hill mouthpiece is very good (by someone VERY familiar with vintage mouthpieces, and hypercritical where mouthpieces are concerned).
donald

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Glotin Chedeville Mouthpieces/Why the high price?
Author: icecoke12 
Date:   2004-03-08 11:03

I have not seen any of the Chadash/Hill mouthpieces anywhere yet.

Where can it be found? Any reviews from those who has tried it?

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Glotin Chedeville Mouthpieces/Why the high price?
Author: Alseg 
Date:   2004-03-08 13:19

Chadash Hill is a fine mpc. and worthy of consideration. I had the facing lengthened just a tiny bit, but that is a personal preference.
Chris is great guy to deal with.
Try the retail area on woodwind.org or via the BooseyHawkes Buffet artists link.

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Glotin Chedeville Mouthpieces/Why the high price?
Author: sfalexi 
Date:   2004-03-08 14:05

You email Guy Chadash and ask where to obtain one. As to testing them out, I haven't, however another clarinetist in my community band has and likes it alot. However he didn't buy it due to it being a bit costly and he figures that as a community band player and not being too serious into it, he doesn't need to spend that kind of money. But once again, he did say he liked it alot. He also liked the Chadash clarinet that his son's instructor let him try.

I wonder if anyone has a complete chadash setup yet . . . clarinet, barrel, mouthpiece . . .

Platoon Sergeant
US Army Japan Band


Reply To Message
 
 Re: Glotin Chedeville Mouthpieces/Why the high price?
Author: Sylvain 
Date:   2004-03-08 14:49

bkmorton,
Buying a good mouthpiece primarily involves play testing a lot of them.
If price is no concern to you, then I would recommend you mail order a bunch of them. A few 65$ vandorens, a few hand made ones adn the glotin.
Then you do a blind test:
Play 2 mpces, discard the one you don't like and never look back!

Bring a new challenger to the test, see if you like it better than the current best.
I don't recommend you compare 5 mpce at a time, it gets too confusing. Also if you can bring somebody with a good ear with you that always helps.
Do this process a few times so yu can select the top 2 or 3 mpce. Play each of them for a few days and pick the one you like best.

Even the most standard "straight from the factory" Vandoren mouthpiece has been and is being used in top ranked professional orchestras. Sure, a lot of people here will argue that a hand finished mouthpiece always has more to offer.
They might be right, but in the end what matters is how it feels to you and how it sounds when you play it.

Good luluck,
-S

--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Glotin Chedeville Mouthpieces/Why the high price?
Author: mw 
Date:   2004-03-08 15:16

Amazing how people state they wouldn't buy an old vintage mouthpiece, etc. & then they show up on eBay & spend $600-800 for a vintage Kaspar or Lelandais. At times I believe this forum is akin to Alcoholics Anonymous for mouthpiece addicts. best, mw



Reply To Message
 
 Re: Glotin Chedeville Mouthpieces/Why the high price?
Author: Ken Shaw 2017
Date:   2004-03-08 15:19

Peter Eaton makes excellent mouthpieces. He makes them mainly for English players who use his English (B&H 1010) bore clarinets, and also makes French-style mouthpieces. Since the bores of English andFrench instruments rae so different, the mouthpieces need very different bores and baffles, and they don't work well unless they match the instrument.

Eaton says he uses computer-controlled cutters that reproduce his models to within a fraction of a thousandth of an inch -- closer than he can do by hand. Nevertheless, at least when you go to him, he will do hand tweaking.

I have an Eaton French style mouthpiece that I got from him at the Clarinet Congress in London about 20 years ago. It has an excellent tone and intonation, with what my golden-eared wife calls a very "clarinetty" sound. I played it for a while and then switched to an Opperman that played a little better and gave me a wider range of tone colors.

For me, $300 is too much to pay for the Glotin, particularly for a mouthpiece that you don't go to the maker for and have the final adjustments done on the spot. Walter Grabner gets just $159 for his top model, Clark Fobes $160 and Greg Smith $200, each for a hand-finished mouthpiece that will probably outplay the Glotin, and each of which you can send back for hand adjustments if it doesn't quite work for you.

Best regards.

Ken Shaw

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Glotin Chedeville Mouthpieces/Why the high price?
Author: Brad 
Date:   2004-03-08 15:57

It's all relative. How does the mouthpiece play for you? is the question that one should always be asking. A $300 mass produced MP, or an even more pricey vintage Kasper or Chedeville are worth every penny IF they give you the sound quality and comfort you are looking for. On the other hand you may be surprised that a $60 Vandoren may give you equal or better results. As was mentioned in this thread, there are quite a few symphony pros using Vandoren Mps out there. I personally know a Major US symphony player that owns them all (Kasper, Kanter, Chadash....) and still plays his Vandoren day in and day out.

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Glotin Chedeville Mouthpieces/Why the high price?
Author: D Dow 
Date:   2004-03-08 17:25

I think the real key with the Glotin Chedeville is that it could be easier to sell these mouthpieces at a freindlier price. There is no way students and younger players will afford the price of these pieces...add to that most pros have a bias towards the equipment they currently use..

Currently I have a David Hite piece which is way better than the old Chedeville that own...I also have an Opperman which comes close but doesn't have the bite the Hite facing D has...it is also a largely personal thing as well. What works for some never works for others...I would say the price is a bit much when you consider how well alot of the Vandoren mouthpieces work..

There are alot of people making mouthpieces out there, and I was lucky enough to have had personal consultation with David Hite about what I was looking for in a clarinet mouthpiece. The maker you choose is one thing, but the result you get may be another. In my process with David Hite he was very careful about trying to meet my needs, not what he felt every clarinet player needs.

The greatest problem facing young players is choice...once upon a time there was only a few makers and they really made quality consistent. Today there are few Kaspars and left and they are truly GREEN. The older the mouthpiece also the greater change in the facing over time....with people like Grabner and Smith around this is a fine option for the professional player market. However, as to price this is the old caveat...the buyer should beware...making a hasty decision can be hell.

Charles Neidich who is super artist plays on Hite pieces and so does Mike Collins...price was not a factor I am sure in these matters. It is personal. What you are looking for in tone and response is adapted only to the way you wish to play!

David Dow

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Glotin Chedeville Mouthpieces/Why the high price?
Author: msloss 
Date:   2004-03-08 18:42

The Glotin-Chede 'pieces are actually from Chadash-Hill blanks.

Chris Hill can be reached at themouthpieceguy@msn.com. Very nice guy and will spend time with you to identify what you need and will do the back-and-forth for you to try stuff out. A couple weeks ago I tried the "full Monty" at Guy's shop - Hill-Chadash mpiece, Chadash barrel, Chadash clarinet, and I must say it was pretty darned good.

I'm currently playing Greg's Ched 1+ and 1++ with terrific results. The switch to try the C/H was awkward on the spot because it takes a very different reed. Worked best with Vandie Black Masters, not the FOFs and V12s I normally play. Even futzing with different reeds, I will say that the rubber in the C/H sounds terrific. It has that special ring that makes the old Chedes so special.

I've preached this before and I'll repeat here -- buy from the guys like Greg who are making mpieces today. The mouthpiece is replicable, and the craftsman can customize it to your needs. It is such a complete crap-shoot trying to get a "classic" Ched or Kaspar, particularly one that hasn't been wrecked by one too many custom refacings if it was even any good in the first place. Let's say you find that perfect one -- what happens if it gets lost, stolen, broken, melted, or just worn out? I keep two identical (or as close as possible) mouthpieces in my case just in case and one back home for disaster recovery. After you've seen somebody knock the beak off a prized mouthpiece hitting the edge of the music stand during a rehearsal or gig, you'll understand.

Yeah, $200 or $300 is a lot of money, but it just isn't that big a deal compared to the total cost of the instrument, particularly when you factor in how much of your sound and technique is affected. Ask your flute buddies some time what they pay for custom head joints and then stop crying about a couple hundred buckeroos for a mouthpiece. We've got it made in the shade.

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Glotin Chedeville Mouthpieces/Why the high price?
Author: sfalexi 
Date:   2004-03-09 02:39

Quote:

Yeah, $200 or $300 is a lot of money, but it just isn't that big a deal compared to the total cost of the instrument, particularly when you factor in how much of your sound and technique is affected. Ask your flute buddies some time what they pay for custom head joints and then stop crying about a couple hundred buckeroos for a mouthpiece. We've got it made in the shade.
I've always thought that sometimes we clarinetists whine a bit too much. But whine about it in front of another woodwind player, or (even worse) a string player and you'll find absolutely no sympathy, but rather probably even a loathing towards you and you're "money problems".

Platoon Sergeant
US Army Japan Band


Reply To Message
 
 Re: Glotin Chedeville Mouthpieces/Why the high price?
Author: donald 
Date:   2004-03-09 08:10

i knew someone would write about "how good Peter Eaton mouthpieces are", thank goodness we're all different eh?
meanwhile- as someone wrote above, talking about mouthpieces aint as good as trying them out.... the chances are that those top players using vandoren mouthpieces had more than one to choose from.
another point- yeah, a head joint is pretty expensive, but also quite a bit more "permanent" than a hard rubber mouthpiece is.
donald

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Glotin Chedeville Mouthpieces/Why the high price?
Author: BobD 
Date:   2004-03-09 12:53

Finding the right mouthpiece that works for you in your current situation and with your current "setup" is a matter of trial and error which means playing a lot of different ones. Sometimes that takes a lifetime....sometimes longer. You may get lucky and find a good one right off the bat......and not realize it until many mouthpieces later you come back to it. It's sorta like marriage. What makes some mouthpieces very expensive is human nature and people who are not too poor to purchase them. Baseball players have the same fetishes about bats. Good luck. Oh, take a crack at that LeLandais currently up for bids

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Glotin Chedeville Mouthpieces/Why the high price?
Author: sfalexi 
Date:   2004-03-09 13:24

Bob,

I hope you're not saying that marriage is a bunch of trial and error! Otherwise I'm not looking forward to all that alimony . . .

Alexi

Platoon Sergeant
US Army Japan Band


Reply To Message
 
 Re: Glotin Chedeville Mouthpieces/Why the high price?
Author: D Dow 
Date:   2004-03-09 14:47

Hence, one of the reasons why Vandoren are so excellent...they have kept the price down and have a greater selection of facings compared to most individual makers! That alone is a plus!

David Dow

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Glotin Chedeville Mouthpieces/Why the high price?
Author: Chedmanus 
Date:   2004-03-09 16:21

I was just at Peter Eatons house this week and have to report that his mouthpieces are quite good. I think the problem is that not too many make it all the way over to the US, plus a lot of Americans have a built in prejudice against the Brits way of playing and wont try them. I found his mouthpieces to be quite lovely, some were very normal like a standard vandoren, while others were much different and more in the British style. They are definitely worth trying out, but i warn that they are expensive. Overall a much higher quality mouthpiece than most of the current mainstream makers in the states. His clarinets are absolutely fabulous, they beat any maker in my book.

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Glotin Chedeville Mouthpieces/Why the high price?
Author: bkmorton 
Date:   2004-03-11 10:21

Thanks for all your input. I plan on trying out the Clark Fobes mouthpiece. I started on a Genussa and my teacher wanted me to try the M 13. I like the M13 but it is a different facing and their seems to be a smaller sweet spot and I end up squeking.
The hard thing is trying more than on expensive mouthpiece at the same time. The stores I usually go to charge per mouthpiece. Thats alot of money. I may wait until the clarinet convention this july. Anyhow Thanks

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Glotin Chedeville Mouthpieces/Why the high price?
Author: sfalexi 
Date:   2004-03-11 12:58

Quote:

The hard thing is trying more than on expensive mouthpiece at the same time. The stores I usually go to charge per mouthpiece. Thats alot of money. I may wait until the clarinet convention this july.
There are a couple ways to try out mouthpieces. Wait until the convention (like you said). I don't know how good mouthpiece trials are there since I've never been to one, but I have an idea that they may not be the best since you'll probably only be able to try a mouthpiece for a few minutes. But it's probably enough to get an initial feeling as to whether you would want to order one in the future to thoroughly try out or not.

Another thing that you can do is, if the mouthpeice is part of their catalogue, order from someone like IMS or another mail order catalogue. Often they will only require a 25% deposit for up to three or four mouthpieces at a time.

However if you're gonna be looking at hand-finished mouthpieces like Fobes and others, that may not be able to help you and I think your best bet would be to wait till the Fest, see which ones you initially like, and then order them later on for a more thorough trial.

Alexi

Platoon Sergeant
US Army Japan Band


Reply To Message
 
 Re: Glotin Chedeville Mouthpieces/Why the high price?
Author: D Dow 
Date:   2004-03-11 16:00

Just tried a Walter Grabner mouthpiece owned by a colleague of mine so don't forget to make a fairly comprehensive search.

Remember, you mouthpiece search is for you. Not for sounding like the way someone easle sounds....

David Dow

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Glotin Chedeville Mouthpieces/Why the high price?
Author: terry 
Date:   2004-03-11 18:26

1. probably more than you would like to know about Chedeville, look at http://sterkel.org, click through "clarinet" and "chedeville"
2. I am extremely happy with the hand made (machined, not moded) Chadash-Hill mouthpiece. Go to http://sterkel.org click through "clarinet" for more info and links.

1929 matched A and Bb Herman Todt Clarinets, Chadash Mouthpiece, Fogietta reeds, http://sterkel.org/clarinet

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Glotin Chedeville Mouthpieces/Why the high price?
Author: Synonymous Botch 
Date:   2004-03-12 21:35

BK-

Drop some of the makers a direct line, including what you currently play, and what you seek from your next mouthpiece.

Most of them have already walked the same path you're about to travel.

PS - What else would Peter Eaton's site say about his product?

Marketing hype will hopelessly cloud this issue.

Only play testing will tell.

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Glotin Chedeville Mouthpieces/Why the high price?
Author: BobD 
Date:   2004-03-12 22:10

"Bob,

I hope you're not saying that marriage is a bunch of trial and error! Otherwise I'm not looking forward to all that alimony . . .
AlexiS"

Nooooo.....Alexi......what I meant was some people dont' know when they have a good mate. You know what the definition of "alimony" is , don't you?

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Glotin Chedeville Mouthpieces/Why the high price?
Author: sfalexi 
Date:   2004-03-13 00:18

Quote:

Nooooo.....Alexi......what I meant was some people dont' know when they have a good mate. You know what the definition of "alimony" is , don't you?
hehe. I was just kidding around. I was waiting for someone to respond to that! As for the definition of alimony, nope. I don't really know what that means. But I know it's always been referred to as "bad" for the guy.

Just joshin' you!

Alexi

Platoon Sergeant
US Army Japan Band


Reply To Message
 
 Re: Glotin Chedeville Mouthpieces/Why the high price?
Author: super20dan 
Date:   2021-09-03 05:43

you can tell this thread is old by the vandoren prices of 65$. i recently got a glotin paris alto clarinet mpc and while it good its not in the chedville range good. the rubber quality is of very high quality but my vandoren b44 outplays it . but for 45$ it was a very good deal

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Glotin Chedeville Mouthpieces/Why the high price?
Author: joe englert 
Date:   2021-09-03 09:41

just think, If it wasn't for harold wright and robert marcellus , no one would even want a chedeville or kaspar...hahaha

9162945857

Reply To Message
 Avail. Forums  |  Threaded View   Newer Topic  |  Older Topic 


 Avail. Forums  |  Need a Login? Register Here 
 User Login
 User Name:
 Password:
 Remember my login:
   
 Forgot Your Password?
Enter your email address or user name below and a new password will be sent to the email address associated with your profile.
Search Woodwind.Org

Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale

The Clarinet Pages
is sponsored by:

For Sale
Put your ads for items you'd like to sell here. Free! Please, no more than two at a time - ads removed after two weeks.

Accessories
Accessories that every clarinetist needs - reed makers and shapers, ligatures, greases, oils, and preservatives ... and more!

Instruments
Retailers and manufacturers of clarinets, both modern and early replica

Music & Books
CDs, Sheet Music, and some of the greatest reference books ever written!

Miscellaneous
Services and products too varied to categorize! Repair, recording, news

Mouthpieces & Barrels
Fine makers of mouthpieces and barrels, from wood to crystal to hard rubber and plastic

Reeds
Great reeds available from around the world

Events
Major events especially for clarinetists

Service
Instrument repairs, restorations, adjustments, and overhauls.

 
     Copyright © Woodwind.Org, Inc. All Rights Reserved    Privacy Policy    Contact charette@woodwind.org