 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2003-11-20 21:13
My decades-old Bonade Inverted ligatures still work fine, but there are newer options. If I wanted to update my equipment, and stay with an inverted style ligature, what are my choices now? (I would rule out those that cost more than +/- $100.
Thanks,
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Author: jo.clarinet
Date: 2003-11-20 21:40
Have you tried using a velcro lig (see John Gibson's VELCRO LIGS PICS thread from 9th Nov)? They look a bit unusual but are very good indeed - I'm using mine all the time now. And they cost hardly anything!
Joanna Brown
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Author: TerpUMD
Date: 2003-11-21 01:00
Would this be equivalent to using string since the pressure would be equally placed around the reed? How thick is the velcro?
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Author: William
Date: 2003-11-21 03:26
I like the Bonade Inverted models on soprano clarinet as well, but am getting similar results from the VD Optimum--and without the constant readjustment hassel.
On my saxs, I use Winslow ligatures exclusively. And I just ordered a bass clarinet lig from John W a couple of weeks ago. It will replace the Optimum lig which has been good on the BC, but I just like the way John's ligs let the larger reeds produce more sound.
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Author: Micaela
Date: 2003-11-21 04:06
I love my Rovner but there are a lot of variables- mouthpiece, reed, etc. Try to find a music store with a large selection of ligatures and try and see what works for you.
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Author: Todd W.
Date: 2003-11-21 16:40
Ralph --
Of course, the Bonade is not just inverted (screws on top), but has the two parallel rails holding the reed. Some current similar designs -- all more expensive, but you don't have to use pliers to get the sides adjusted -- are:
Vandoren Optimum (mentioned above) -- has three interchangeable plates, one of which has the parallel rails. Fairly heavy.
BG makes a couple of fabric models with metal rails.
Rovner Eddie Daniels model -- fabric, but with metal rails and additional fabric flaps that can be folded over the rails; potentially lots of sound adjustment options.
Canadian Peter Spriggs' (a site sponsor) Floating Rail ligature -- light and elegant.
Francois Louis ligature -- type in the name on the search feature here and you'll find a couple of threads about it, including a review by John Moses.
All of these have single screws. Some say that tightens them more evenly on the reed. Others like two screws so they can adjust the top and bottom independently.
As usual, with all things clarinet, try them and see what works best for you.
Todd W.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-11-21 17:44
Something to consider: We all seem to have our personal favorite ligatures, because they seem to work/sound/respond better with our particular mouthpieces and particular reeds ----- but I've found that one can change ligatures and adjust for the changes by simply using different reeds or adjusting the existing reeds to suit --- for example, it's pretty well agreed-upon that Rovner-type fabric ligatures provide a certain amount of damping of the higher partials -- this can be good or bad, depending on your goals -- but one can easily compensate for that characteristic by using brighter-sounding reeds. Similarly, if going from a Rovner to a 'bright'-sounding metal ligature, one can compensate be scraping the reeds for more darkness or using the 'deader' reeds from the same box (those which may not have worked well previously with the Rovner). I guess my point is that it's misleading to judge ligatures based only on their immediate effects on one's current setup --- a player should try out different ligatures in conjunction with different reeds and probably even different mouthpieces. Or to put it another way, no matter what ligature you use, chances are you can get good results with it by varying your reeds, or reed adjustments, or possibly the mouthpiece. One shouldn't spend too much time looking for a Holy Grail ligature, there are other (more productive) ways to get improvement.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-11-21 18:32
David Spiegelthal wrote:
> One shouldn't
> spend too much time looking for a Holy Grail ligature, there
> are other (more productive) ways to get improvement.
Like Baermann III for a half hour every day...GBK ;-)
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Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2003-11-22 17:31
First: Many Thanks for the replies.
String and Velcro are out - I like them but tend to switch instruments a lot and in my experience they don't stay on well enough. Have an older Rovner and at least one other fabric/rubber lig and don't like the damping - newer ones with rails may perform differently.
The other choices here look good - I was going to take my last forced day off work to try mpcs & ligs but other events conspired against it.
GBK: 1/2 hour of Baermann III with the ticker is just a warmup. This should get you through the first bunch of scales, broken chords and dim 7th chords(with repeats). If you keep on going though, for a full hour, you will start to see some real progress.
Regards to All
Ralph
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-11-22 18:07
As I've said repeatedly, put a copy of Baermann III on your music stand and never remove it. (mine has been there for 30+ years)
Do a minimum of a half hour a day for six straight months. Don't skip any days. After 6 months, you will have noticed significant improvement in your playing.
Greater results will be obtained with a dedicated course of study than all the switching of ligatures, mouthpieces, barrels and reeds.
Guaranteed ...GBK
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-11-22 19:26
Did I hear/read "PracticeX3", I KNOW I need it, but plead advanced age/stamina! Ralph, I have had some decent ligature experience by inverting the Rovner-type, reversing the adjusting bolt/knob, so as to hold the reed on its edges, ala Bonade. Try it. Otherwise I like my Mitchel Lurie [2 horizontal bands] on my Pom bass cl mp. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-11-22 19:48
Buying ligatures for playing woes is like buying a new putter when you can't get out of the rough...
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Author: Ed
Date: 2003-11-23 00:04
The Francois Louis Ultimate ligature is outstanding.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2003-11-23 01:17
Ed wrote:
> The Francois Louis Ultimate ligature is outstanding.
I second that. Lots of people like it. I also really like the Gigliotti ligature, but the only thing I don't particularly like is that it's plastic and can snap if you overtighten or gets warped if you do the same.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: saxlite
Date: 2003-11-23 02:23
Tried to make the "velcro" ligs work-couldn't get them to stay in place. They did work pretty well for clamping down keys for seating pads, though.....
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Author: donald
Date: 2003-11-23 03:48
hhhhmmmm ok, this is what i use...
a YAMAHA stock ligature, inverted, with 4 little silver squares stuck on to make contact with the reed. This ligature was modelled after the "Bonade inverted with cetre bit cut out"....
i have played on this ligature almost exclusively since June, including performances at Clarinetfest 2003, a couple of weeks solid playing with Opera NZ on tour, chamber performances (including Mozart Quintet) and 2nd clarinet with Auckland Chamber orchestra (so, lot's of different halls and playing circumstances). This is my "Lord of the Rings lig" as the jeweler who made it up also made "the one ring" for the movie. It cost me $10us
THEN last weekend i used my "other ligature"- my very first Rovner from 1984, with the "parallel rails" tone-plate from a Vandoren Optimum inserted (hard to explain- made a slit in the Rovner and stuck the humpback bit of the Opt tone place in so it was held in place). I used this for a performance as my 2nd clarinet for the Telemann duo concerto played with a fat englishy sound and so i wanted to blend a bit better with her. Me having quite a focussed sound and all.... Asking her to play with a more focussed sound didn't seem tactful, as she had dropped furniture on her finger and was a bit stressed out. This is my "jurassic lig" as the bit of Opt sticking out underneath looks like the back of one type of dinosaur. (you wouldn't believe i'm a grown up, eh?)
These days, i don't feel any urge to mess around with ligatures really- these two custom jobs keep me quite happy. But whichever ligature i'm using, i still need a good reed, and sound best if i haven't neglected my scales (only, i use Hamelin/Albert for my daily workout during the year and Baermann for the summer (Dec-Feb)....).
email me if you want better explanations/description of these two custom ligatures. And keep playing the good tunes.
donald
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Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2003-11-23 11:12
Thanks. There are some good responses here. I am perfectly happy with my decades-old Bonade Inverted. This question was posed to help keep up with current products - every once in a while there is a real winner. Looks like I should try out the Vandoren Optimum, BG's with metal rails, Rovner Eddie Daniels model, Peter Spriggs' Floating Rail, and Francois Louis.
As a point of information, a dozen years ago I had a professional binder beef up the replacement to my worn-out Baermann III. With job and family leaving me limited time, this and the Jeanjeann "Vade Mecum" get a lot of use. I try to go an hour on them, when I get the chance.
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Author: jo.clarinet
Date: 2003-11-23 12:35
Hi Ralph - glad you had some useful replies!
I hope you don't mind if I answer a couple of people here, as there doesn't seem any point in starting a new thread:
a) TerpUMD - if you have a look at the Lig Pic thread, there are photos posted there so you can see what they look like.
b) Saxlite - I'm surprised that you found the velcro didn't stay put. I 'preformed' mine by wrapping them round the mouthpiece WITHOUT the reed, then when you get them over the reed they fit really snugly (and as an added bonus it's so quick to do!). You don't need to undo them each time - just keep them in the shape you've made. Hope this helps!
Joanna Brown
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Author: john gibson
Date: 2003-11-24 20:41
Joanna.....you are exactly right. You have to fit the velcro lig tightly to the MPC first, then slide it over the reed. And voila! They stay put, and allow the reed to vibrate much the way a string lig does.
John
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Author: Mark P. Jasuta
Date: 2003-11-24 22:33
Practice will make you better, not a new ligature. Just get one that YOU find easy to use and practice, practice, practice, and when you are done, practice some more.
I am aware that there are those that feel a new ligature will make you a better player. This is the same group that thinks racing stripes and mag wheels make a car go faster. However I heard that chrome valve covers will get you an extra 30 horsepower. ;-)
Regards
Mark
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-11-25 19:45
Since I don't have time to practice any more, guess I'll buy a new ligature......any suggestions?
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Author: vin
Date: 2003-11-25 20:20
Too bad there are no shortcuts in practicing as in with car-racing (Nitrous Boosters). Well, actually, the hard work is the most rewarding thing in my opinion AND no one ever died because they went too fast playing the clarinet!
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Author: fred-jazz
Date: 2003-11-26 14:11
As a physics major in college who is now a professional musician, I always hate to see the ligature question. As anyone who has ever held a ruler over the edge of a table and snapped it, you should know that the tighter you hold it the better it works. This is because for the wood to vibrate, it has to be fixed at some points and totally free at others. The fixed point is called the node, and the free point is the antinode in physics terms. You can show this all to be true mathematically if you take the oscillations course. This is why the nut and bridge on a guitar, violin, etc, are made of a firm substance and not soft rubber.
What does this mean for clarinet? The reed should be held firmly. Mostg of the variation probably comes from debris or poor facing of the mouthpiece, since a leak is detrimental to the tone. And finally, since your lip contacts the reed between the ligature and the tip, that is the point where the tone, damping of highs, etc, is all happening. Get a good, reliable cheap ligature and spend more time on practice and adjusting ( shaping, clipping, sanding, etc) the reeds and you will improve much more than by fooling with ligatures.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-11-26 14:35
fred-jazz wrote:
> Mostg of the variation probably comes from debris or
> poor facing of the mouthpiece, since a leak is detrimental to
> the tone.
As a physics major, you should see the fault with that supposition.
If it were debris, the effects of different ligatures should not be repeatable. They are.
If it were the mouthpiece facing, the effects of different ligatures should be negligible. They aren't.
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Author: Woodwinder
Date: 2003-11-27 18:13
Once when I had a band concert and had left my clarinet at the studio, I had to play on a $40 Bundy my husband happened to pick up for me at a garage sale. He knew something was missing, so he bargained them down from $60. That something was the ligature. So I took a fat rubber band from the broccoli I'd bought and wrapped it around twice. It worked fine. Once it slipped a little, but I fixed it.
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Author: Burt
Date: 2003-11-28 01:57
Fred, if you keep using common sense, you will risk putting a lot of ligature makers out of business. In addition, you could remove a major topic of idle conversation. It's better that you refrain from such sensible advice. Just read these postings and chuckle.
Yes, we physicists are sticking together on this issue.
Burt
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Author: Wicked Good ★2017
Date: 2003-11-28 19:20
My trusty, 20+ years-old workhorse gold Harrison ligature still works great. IMHO, there's nothing wrong with a standard-issue ligature, though, and anyone who belongs to the "Ligature-of-the-Month Club" is wasting time and money. If my Harrison hadn't been a gift, I'd still be using a standard ligature. Just my 2 cents worth. 
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