 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Fred
Date: 2003-11-04 21:28
I'm enjoying getting to know my "new" 1954 Selmer Centered Tone clarinet, and would like to get some mouthpiece suggestions. What I'm after is that big open sound that players speak of when describing a CT. I need to lose some of the controlled nature of my sound in exchange for some added flexibility and "fatness". I typically play on either a Greg Smith Ched 1+ or a Dave S. / Buffet Ched mouthpiece, but I think I'd like another option on the CT.
Any suggestions?
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2003-11-04 21:40
Hi Fred,
I use a Portnoy BP02 with a Leblanc Dynamic 2 (a big bore horn). If anything, I do have a big sound with this combo. Using a Ched or a VD 2RV (my back-ups but I have several Portnoys as well), the tone is fine but not near as full.
I've not played the Greg Smith but his MPs are considered very good. Maybe ask DS since he worked on your Ched; maybe he has something that might work for you or can do a "fix" on yours to better fit the Selmer.
HRL
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Author: Fred
Date: 2003-11-05 02:16
I tried a Vandoren 5JB tonight. It was fun, but probably a bit more freedom than I can handle. Still, I might continue to experiment with it.
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2003-11-05 11:32
Fred,
Are you going to use your CT mostly for big band or jazz playing? Not that it makes any difference in what I'm going to suggest but I'm just curious.
I use a large bore clarinet (a restored 1966 Noblet) and get excellent results with a Morgan RM15. In talking with Ralph Morgan about my clarinet he recommended that I use this mouthpiece. In addition to the RM15, I also tried two Morgan mouthpieces that have larger tip openings -- the RM28 and J5 (jazz model). I found the RM15 to have a MUCH richer, warmer, and fatter sound than the other two mouthpieces and, interestingly, it has just as much if not more projection.
Another thing that made a big difference in my sound and level of projection is a silver Francois Louis ligature.
Good luck. I'd love to try a CT some time.
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Author: Fred
Date: 2003-11-05 13:12
Thanks, Roger. Yes, the CT will be more of a jazz/improv instrument. I really love to experience the variety in different instruments, but this is my first big bore clarinet. It feels SO GOOD in the hands, and already seems like an old friend. I haven't checked intonation yet, but will probably do so tonight. I'll keep my other mp's for more legit work on - at least for now - other clarinets. I don't know though . . . if the CT's intonation is workable it could become a regular.
I'd really love to try the Morgan you suggested. Do you play one on alto as well? Any other Morgans in your arsenal?
Hank - I thought I had a Portnoy, but it turns out it was a Brilhart 2*. The wonderful thing about aging is that you can remember things that haven't happened yet. I'll check around to see what I can find.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-11-05 14:00
I have 2 CT's, both play very well with quite-open-tip mps. Because of their 15.0 mm bores, I check to be sure the barrels [have several] are large bore also, and then picking among my mps, check to see that the mp bore is also as large as the barrel, so there are no "steps" of significant-size in the mp/barrel/UJ bore. For jazz and comm. band, my old BG [stencilled Benny Goodman] is good, others also. I would suggest that Pete Fountain mps should be big-bore also,[others?] to match LeBlanc's big bores, and would be suitable as well. For more classical, I go to a VD 11.6, or my refaced [to a 5RVL] glass O'Brien, both of which bore-match. At least psychologically [sp??] I feel good about this "procedure. Lately I have gone to LaVoz medium reeds as being OK for my playing. If you play in the altissimo, Dixie, big-band jazz, [to be heard, wo ampl.], you may need harder reeds. Have fun, Don
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2003-11-05 16:15
Fred,
I use Morgan mouthpieces on all of my saxes -- soprano, alto, tenor, and c-melody.
On alto I've used the 6M (medium chamber), 6L (large chamber), and 6EL (Excalibur large chamber) jazz models. Each one is excellent in its own ways. I've found that the particular brand and model of saxophone you use can make a difference as to which model of mouthpiece is a better match. Most recently, I've been using the 3C which is one of Ralph Morgan's classical saxophone mouthpieces. This mouthpiece came as a complete surprise to me. I'm able to get a MUCH BIGGER and more vibrant sound with it on my late model Buescher True Tone than with the 6EL -- which is a powerful mouthpiece.
On soprano I use a custom mouthpiece that Ralph made for me. He calls it a 6C. It's essentially a classical soprano sax mouthpiece with a .065 tip opening. It has a beautiful dark and warm sound along with a good amount of punch.
On tenor I'm currently using a 6EL. It's a fantasic mouthpiece. Lots of power with a considerable range of tonal color. However, being so impressed with the 3C on alto, I have a 3C on order for tenor.
On c-melody I use another custom mouthpiece from Ralph. It's called a 6M. I describe it as a hybrid. It has the baffle of a 6M tenor mouthpiece. However, the chamber is much larger than a comparable 6L. This brings a more brilliant, bigger, and stronger sound to my c-melody. No vintage stuffiness!
If you have any questions about the saxophone mouthpieces please write to me offline at nancyandrog@earthlink.net.
One thing to keep in mind about the RM15 clarinet mouthpiece is that the moderate tip opening (1.15 mm) can be misleading. The piece has an A-shaped chamber that's around 30% larger, according to Ralph, than most clarinet mouthpieces currently being produced. In my experience, I'm able to get a bigger sound with it than with other brands of mouthpieces I've tried with a comparable tip opening...or even with a larger tip opening. Again, this is just my personal experience.
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Author: bob49t
Date: 2003-11-05 22:28
You asked for suggestion for A '54 Selmer Centred Tone.
Another option would be Peter Eaton. The larger of the instruments is the Elite and the mouthpiece for this clar may be suitable.
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Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2003-11-05 22:30
Here is a radical suggestion. What about a Selmer, they make them to suit their own horns.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-11-06 14:53
Yes, SB, my CT's, a 1954 [best], and a 1952 are 15.0 mm bores. Wasn't the B&H 1010 a larger, maybe 15.3, bore? Those mps might be too big?? I have an [inherited] old Johnston-Selmer mp, HS in an oval on the table, will try in on the CTs. Don
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-11-06 15:09
You don't need a special mouthpiece at all --- bore matching between instrument and mouthpiece is unnecessary. My opinion only, based on my experiences only.
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Author: Fred
Date: 2003-11-06 16:17
Don, I'm pretty ignorant of Selmer history, but the Selmer web site says that the CT first appeared in their 1954 catalog (interesting that they didn't say "were first produced in 1954"). If your '52 is a CT, do you know when they first starting producing them?
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Author: graham
Date: 2003-11-06 16:27
DS is probably right about bore matching not being crucial, but I actually doubt that a 1010 mouthpiece would be right. It is for a 15.2mm bore clarinet and is cylindrical rather than connical. Suggest a 926 mouthpiece from Pillinger (or others) could well do the trick. A good 926 cuts right through, and the bore of the 926 was around 15.00mm, perhaps a fraction wider.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-11-06 18:39
Hi Fred - I tried to access the Equip, serial# lists, under repair now I guess. My #s are P's 59xx and 97xx [the better one] and stencilled Cent, Tone. I had a P 22xx earlier, no CT [Fr import], but much the same cl, I'll bet it was the '52, and the above are '54+. So believe yure rite!! Will look when I can find my listing. No great importance, like them all!. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: bob49t
Date: 2003-11-07 05:21
At the risk of contradicting DS (again from my experiences), my Eaton Elites certainly do not like any of my older narrow bore mouthpieces. All have the same huge intonation discrepancies at the top of clarion and altiss.
RT
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-11-07 13:29
RT,
I can't argue with your evidence, so I won't. But I will note that I've played in the past and continue to play on large-bore clarinets using various standard-bore mouthpieces and (at least down at my journeyman level of competence) not noted any significant mouthpiece-induced intonation problems. In fact, my current 'fave' clarinet is a .593"-bore Boosey & Hawkes series 8-10 (I imagine the bore is very similar to those of your Eatons) and its intonation is excellent everywhere except for some slight flatness in the very lowest chalumeau E and F; using a wide variety of mouthpieces (none specifically designed for large-bore clarinets).
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-11-08 19:55
I would trust Dave.
Ignore his (inexpensive) advice at the peril of your wallet.
Get out a tuner to verify your concerns, first.
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Author: Fred
Date: 2003-11-09 03:15
I'm really not too concerned about needing a special mouthpiece to "work" on the CT. My concern is more to find a mouthpiece that lets a CT be a CT instead of trying to make it an R13. The CT will be more of a feature instrument than a section/ensemble instrument. I like Buffets - currently have four of them - but I want the CT to speak a lot bolder and be a lot more expressive than what I currently play. I believe that will mean going to a wider tip opening/softer reed. How wide / how soft - I don't know. I'm currently experimenting with a Vandoren 5JB, and though it's fun, I don't think it will be where I end up.
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Author: john gibson
Date: 2003-11-09 04:42
Hey Fred...
Get a Pomarico Diamond + (crystal). It'll solve all your problems and sound great. Belive me. Pomarico makes the greatest MPCs I've ever played.
John Gibson
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Author: Fred
Date: 2003-11-09 22:07
Played the CT in church orchestra today. I was going to play on the 5JB, but forgot to transfer soft reeds to my case. My 3.5's felt like popsicle sticks on that mouthpiece. Fortunately, I had a Greg Smith mp with me that would go with my 3.5 reeds. I checked intonation pretty carefully, and can't imagine why anyone couldn't play this CT in tune. So much for intonation issues . . .
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Author: JAZZYJOEV
Date: 2012-07-18 12:38
I was having the same problem. I started with Alan Segal. He made me a great Jazz barrel that he custom designed for me. It really helped (clarinet concepts). He is great with communication and very helpful. I was so pleased with my barrel I decided to get a mouthpiece and that further enhanced my tone. My next step was to change my clarinet. I brought a 444n conn oldie. Allan made me a great barrel for that. It helped, but still love the sound of my LL and his first barrel. He is absolutely terrific with design concepts for barrels. While in this process he designed a x barrel and a inverted cone barrel for me. He uses unusual fine woods. I believe allot of the warmth in my sound comes from those. Projection however comes from bore design.
Joe
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2012-07-18 16:12
If I'm not mistaked, the CT came equipped with a Selmer HS* mouthpiece. I've auditioned a section mate's CT with my HS* and found it to be an excellent combination--great control, fine intonation, a big fat tone, and projection to spare. Why not just start with a Selmer HS* and/or C*?
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Author: FDF
Date: 2012-07-18 22:06
I have an HS* somewhere in the catacombs of my basement that came with my Selmer CT. The Selmer C* and Portnoy have worked well with it, but I prefer a Woodwind C7 that I bought back in '56 that was refaced by Tom Ridenour.
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Author: jack
Date: 2012-07-21 06:12
By all means try a Lomax "Andy Firth" model. For me they are almost "To good to be true".
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Author: Bill
Date: 2012-07-21 17:59
The best mpc for a CT is the "oval" mark Selmers, which were designed for them. The mpc has the HS* (or whatever grade) in an oval imprinted on the table.
Bill Fogle
Ellsworth, Maine
(formerly Washington, DC)
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