 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: sinkdraiN
Date: 2003-10-12 23:36
I am a sax player who doubles on clarinet. I play in a community orchestra to keep my clarinet chops in shape. I am currently playing a B40 with 3.5 V12 reeds. I absolutely love the ring in the sound from this piece. The problem is I have to work so hard to make this thing play. Its very resistant and I dont think the rest of the section is working nearly as hard as me. I also own a Morgan RM 28, B45, Larry Coombs LC1, and a Hite Premiere. None of these mouthpieces seem to sound as nice as the B40. However, the resistance is starting to bug me. PLEASE help!
Is there other options out there that would sound similar to a B40? Have any of you had similar issues with a B40.
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2003-10-12 23:45
Try ;going to the M30 which has a very similar tone to the B40.
As to my own playing i FIND the B40 quite resistant and use Hite D and Blayman E facings in normal orchestral settings.
David Dow
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Author: sinkdraiN
Date: 2003-10-13 00:00
I read that the M30 produces a similar sonority as a B40. I am skeptical since it has a smaller facing. D Dow, I am guessing that it wasnt similar enough for you to want to play it over the B40. Could you describe the differences between your B40 and your Hite D.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2003-10-13 01:19
Perhaps you have a mismatch between your reed strength and mouthpiece? What does Vandoren recommend for this mouthpiece?
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Author: Michael McC.
Date: 2003-10-13 02:22
I play a B40, and tried V12 3.5s for a while, but they tended to be very hard to blow. I switched to a V12 3, and they seem to work better. I like the B40's sound, but it is particular about reeds. My teacher wants me to get an M30, but I am broke (musicians, what else is new?) and can't afford to buy one right now.
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Author: vin
Date: 2003-10-13 02:41
I won an audition on a B40 several years ago. It was/is a fantastic mouthpiece and in most registers it had an amazing round, ringing tone at every dynamic. However, in the lower register and on articulated notes (esp. Beethoven 6), unless I had the perfect reed I found, as you do, that I had to work incredibly hard. While I have had success with this mouthpiece and love the sound, I no longer play on it. I haven't found anything that is as easy to sound wonderful in any dynamic in the clarion register but I no longer have to work as hard.
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Author: vin
Date: 2003-10-13 02:42
I should say that that particular mouthpiece was fantastic; I have tried other B40s that didn't sound as good and were as hard to play.
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Author: moose6589
Date: 2003-10-13 09:36
Umm, maybe it's just me or something, but I don't find the B40 to be all that resistant. My Pomaricos, which I have given up on, are much much much more resistant. I suppose it's all relative and depends on the person playing it.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2003-10-13 11:36
3.5 reeds sounds a B40 mouthpiece sounds a bit too much. clarinet players (and especially clarinet teachers) usually use and recommend reeds that are too hard. i would use 2.5-3 reeds on that mouthpiece.
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2003-10-13 15:08
Dear Sinkdrain
Having thought a bit abut your plight, I suspect you may not be using a ligature that allows decent vibration of the reed. A normal metal lig has a tendency to bind the reed and throw off the natural vibration of the cane.
I would also think that the problems may lie in the way you are adjusting/not adjusting the reed tips to match the facing. I keep a reed knife about to make the rails balanced. Being a symetrical facing, the B40 really needs even resistance on both sides of the reed at the very top.
I have considerable sucess with the Rovner light ligatures on the B40 and the power and depth to the tone is wonderful. I ALSO wonder how the balances are in the ensemble. If you are playing in a really loud group and trying to match volume note for note with an overtly loud section then this will make any mouthpiece seem resistant!
I would also consider finding some No 3 reeds as well in order to offset fatigue. This is normal if you are playing alot. As to the D facing, its got a full sound, but you may find it too closed and unlike the sound you have now to be comfortable.
David Dow
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Author: sinkdraiN
Date: 2003-10-13 16:43
Thank you for all the posts. I have some Blue box 3s and will give them a try. I'm afraid that the V12 3s may be a little too soft for my liking. I am using a gigliotti ligature which I like much better than the standard metal ligatures. I will give the rovner a try. As to the reed adjusting- I do not. In fact I wouldnt know what to do if i did try to adjust the reed. Would I be right in thinking that a harder reed would require more adjusting than a softer one. I believe the V12's have a thicker tip.
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Author: sinkdraiN
Date: 2003-10-14 01:08
Ok- I am in my studio playing the B40 with Blue Box 3 and it plays wonderful. The resistance is much better which is allowing me to articulate cleaner. Im glad because I really love the tone from this mouthpiece. I was just playing around with some jazz and I am really impressed with the large variety of tone colors possible with the B40. Thanks everyone
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Author: Karel
Date: 2003-10-14 03:29
SinkdraiN, adjusting reeds can be done as a simple or a complex process. If you go to <www.orc.woodwind.org/articles/index.html> you will find the index to a number of interesting articles, including several with advice on reed adjustment. You really can make apparently awful reeds sound quite good with aonly a little efort. Cheers.
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Author: Hiroshi
Date: 2003-10-14 04:07
The B40 was designed some 25 years ago with the advice of Guy Deprus.
(I bought one when Vaandoren started to sell them.)
Its design concept was to give the same tonality with thinner reeds as with thicker reeds.
Even with a 2.5 traditional type Vandoren reed, you can play comfortably with deep sound. (See Vandoren homepage for their recommended reed strengths.) . You will find you can play much comfortably.
It seems (unlike American people, who like thicker reeds) European people do not hesitate to use thinner reeds.
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2003-10-16 18:02
I believe from speaking with Vandoren mouthpiece products design Jean-Paul Guavin , the B40 was a concept that numerous players were involved in regarding opinion, not design. You can e mail Vandoren about this, in my own personal interaction I was let to believe by Mr. Gauvin that this was his baby.
David Dow
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Author: OboeAtHeart
Date: 2003-10-18 17:03
Yo, peoplezes.
MP question.
I play on the usual High School requirement B45 and Rovner ligature with size 4 Mitchell Luries. I've found that 3.5 reeds give me a very shrill chirpy sound, but there just a tad easier to play (not that much though). Anything below a 3.5 just sounds like massive.. ah, junk. My horn is a Leblanc Concerto, one of the older ones. (Not the Concerto II, being.)
Mitchell Lurie 4.5s give me a bit of a darker sound, but I don't quite have the wind or the embochure to play on them yet, (meaning I have to breath about every 4 measures using those) though I did shave one down w/ reed rush and it played very nicely and had a wonderful response. (Unfortunately, I have to go to a city about a two hour drive away to get these reeds and so that puts a damper on that.)
Am I overshooting my reed size? I might be switching to a 5RV Lyre soon, and I've found that that MP is much easier to play than my B45. It's more of a closed MP, isn't it? My instructor says that the Rovner I'm using is also muffling my tone quite a bit, but I'm not sure which ligature I need to get. Suggestions as to what I might need to switch to? I tend to lean more towards a classical tone, and Jazz is definately not my thing on clarinet.(though Dixieland stuff is mad fun!)
I hope I'm making sense, I'm going off of coming out of a football game form which we got back at 1am and I was up till 2am after that, then we have a marching comp today. Yahoo.
Any imput ya'll would have would be wonderful.
Kudos!
-Jenne.
*~"The clarinet, though appropriate to the expression of the most poetic ideas and sentiments, is really an epic instrument- the voice of heroic love."~*
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2003-10-18 18:51
I've played ML #3.5 and #4 with a 5RVL and also find them easy to play but too shrill. This is with a BG soft ligature. With a Vandoren optimum they become positively screechy.
Bear in mind that ML reed gradings are way out of line with other brands. The charts say that an ML 4 #is as hard as a Vandoren blue box #3.5. I'd say it's more like a #3, which is what I now play.
But then, I suspect that the wisest comment about reeds I've read in a long time was one made a few days ago by Gerald-Wiley; see http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=127195&t=127195
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: sinkdraiN
Date: 2003-10-20 01:44
Well i played with my orchestra tonight with the Vandoren trad 3 reed that i found comfortable at home. This setup was noticeably less full than the other tones around me. I missed the full tone of the 3.5s. Now tonight i was doubling between my R13 A and my Leblanc LL Bb. On the A the B40 with trad 3.5 reeds played absolutely perfect. It was on the Bb LL that I noticed resistance problems. The Bb feels like its on the verge of a squeek so Im always working to keep my embouchure steady to avoid it. No problem with the R13 A. Sounds to me like its time to take my horn to the shop. Im assuming a LL is not supposed to be significantly more resistant than an R13.
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2003-10-20 17:29
I think and that is think, from what you say the LL is actually the source of the trouble. However, is the pad work and adjustment light on this clarinet? Sometimes the pads after a while tend to make an instrument reesistant and this can become a baffling scene in trying to match reeds to the A over the Bb clarinet...
In our orchestra up here the tendency of the Bb is to play with reeds that a bit light in relation to the A. Of course, I am playing in a drier evvironment so this being CaNADA may factor into the troubles I personally have.
I also find it far easier to get reeds working for the A over the Bb clarinet. If this situation is the same for you I would certainly think you should have your resistance on the Bb clarinet looked into. Who does your clarinet work ?? Etc ....
David Dow
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Author: sinkdraiN
Date: 2003-10-21 02:02
Yea, I made an appointment with a reputable repairman to work on my LL. I bought this horn used and only had local guys tweak it every once in a while for a very cheap price. Im taking it to a better repairman for an overhaul on tuesday. I notice that my R13 A has mostly corks in the uppper joint. My LL has all pads...
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