 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Mark P. Jasuta
Date: 2003-02-12 18:07
Hi all,
I am interested in opinions from anyone who has tried the Vandoren M30 mouthpiece.
Mark
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Author: Jules
Date: 2003-02-12 18:26
I tried the M30 recently and found that it was very free blowing, dark, and focussed. It articulated well, and had some other really good qualities. Overall, I would say it is a good high-end intermediate level mouthpiece. It did, however, play a bit sharp in the upper clarion and altissimo registers with my current set-up. Just my thought, though.
Anyone else?
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Author: Bryan
Date: 2003-02-12 21:23
I just tried one, and had mixed results. The articuation was very good, but I found it resistant in the altissimo, and the intonation was not great. But I was testing a Morgan at the same time, and my usual mouthpiece is a Grabner, so perhaps the comparison was not fair.
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Author: Classifan
Date: 2003-02-12 22:26
I heard that the curve of the M30 is the same as the M15, but with a wider tip opening. I was able to get a nice open sound like the B40, but with a harder reed such as the V-14 #4 or #4 1/2.
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Author: Classifan
Date: 2003-02-12 22:26
I heard that the curve of the M30 is the same as the M15, but with a wider tip opening. I was able to get a nice open sound like the B40, but with a harder reed such as the V-12 #4 or #4 1/2.
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Author: James
Date: 2003-02-13 18:01
Heh... The M30 an intermediate mouthpiece? I don't think so. I don't really see eastman students and professors using intermediate equipment. The M30 is a great mouthpiece. It was developed by Jon Manasse and vandoren. It is a great mouthpiece and tends to carry very good pitch tendecies. It is definately the best mouthpiece vandoren has to offer.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-02-13 19:49
"...It is definately the best mouthpiece vandoren has to offer..."
That's not saying very much.
It is still a mass produced, machine made mouthpiece which is not in the same league as the custom makers (both past and present)...GBK
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2003-02-13 20:42
"It is definately the best mouthpiece vandoren has to offer."
Er... doesn't that depend on which tip opening and facing you prefer? Just because it's your personal favourite doesn't mean that it is the best Vandoren have to offer. Besides which, the M30 is tuned to A=440, which is too low for European pitch. I'll be sticking to my B40- the best Vandoren mouthpiece for me!
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2003-02-14 00:47
"...It is still a mass produced, machine made mouthpiece which is not in the same league as the custom makers (both past and present)..."
I disagree, I would rate some vandorens I have owned and tried at least as good if not better than some of the custom made 200+$ I tried. And I never found a custom made one that was so much better that I wanted to pay 3 times the price of a vandoren
The few professionals I know (which is not very many to be perfectly honest) still use VD mpces on a regular basis if not as their main mpce.
-S
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Author: Jamie
Date: 2003-02-14 05:24
I guess this all just more than proves that when it comes equipment, it is all based on personal preference and what gives you the sound like the one person you've idolized your entire life. Let us not forget, not everyone liked Kaspars or Chedevilles way back when, but you sure see a lot of people scrounging to find one now...and paying a hefty sum at that. The irony in that is that you still don't know if you will find a "good one."
Not everyone is going to have the same oppinion as the next person. Besides, oppinions are like backsides...everyone has one, right? I suppose this is why there are so many m/p makers today who have set out to make their own brand. I'll be honest, if I had the time and the skill, I'd make my own. That would definately solve the "sounds good, can't afford it" problem!
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Author: James
Date: 2003-02-14 17:27
The M30 13 is pitched at 440 the other model, the regular m30 is pitched at 442
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Author: Clarence
Date: 2003-02-14 23:53
Sylvain,
I would think that a professional would seek out the best in all equipment. All of the custom mouthpieces that I have tried have offered at least some improvement over Vandoren mouthpieces. Some were so much better that it would be hard not to notice.
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Author: cyso_clarinetist
Date: 2003-06-20 04:56
The M30 generally works better with Traditional reeds as it was designed to be used with traditional reeds.
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2003-06-20 23:36
****It (Vandoren) is still a mass produced, machine made mouthpiece which is not in the same league as the custom makers (both past and present)...GBK****
That's not saying very much.
Have you ever examined a Vandoren mouthpiece? It receives as much handwork as any custom made mouthpiece. The difference is in the facing and quality control (or a monkey that stands behind the product).
A custom maker makes facing by hand and will work on the mouthpiece voicing until he's satisfied.
99% of custom mouthpiece makers use mass produced machine made mouthpiece blanks.
A machine faces Vandoren mouthpieces and quality control at Vandoren most of the time sucks.
Computer controlled machine can make a perfect facing. Custom facings usually are excellent but never perfect.
Do you believe Zinners are hand made?
Vytas
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Author: vin
Date: 2003-06-21 04:49
I'll bet GBK has never examined a vandoren mouthpiece- heh heh heh
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-06-21 05:31
Two years ago I tested close to 30 different B45Lyres to find an acceptable one for a student. The variation between mouthpieces was staggering.
I also went through about 20 Vandoren crystals in the early 1970's before finding the 2 which I use today.
Draw your own conclusions ...GBK
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Author: cyso_clarinetist
Date: 2003-06-21 05:35
GBK... I hate the vandoren b45 mouthpieces, they do not work for me what so ever. But you shouldn't reguard the new M30 like other vandoren mouthpieces. This is really such a find mouthpiece. It really doesn't compare to anything else anymore for myself.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-06-21 05:47
cyso_clarinetist said:
< But you shouldn't reguard the new M30 like other vandoren <mouthpieces. This is really such a find mouthpiece. It really doesn't <compare to anything else anymore for myself.
Somehow I don't see Greg Smith, Clark Fobes, Richard Hawkins, and Dan Johnston losing any sleep over it... GBK
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Author: DezzaG
Date: 2003-06-21 12:57
Do people think that all the custom mouthpiece guys do is face the blanks they use? I know for a fact that at least two do baffle work, if not all of them, and these pieces FAR outsurpass Vandorens, Vandorens are great to learn on, but I would hate to be stuck on one for life...but my Grabner on the other hand....
I'm with you GBK!
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Author: Burt
Date: 2003-06-21 13:53
I bought an M30-13 at the Oklahoma symposium after trying many custom mouthpieces, other Vandoren models and two other M30-13s. I like the facing, which is a good approximation to the custom mp that my teeth have nearly worn through. There was not much difference among the three M30-13s I tried.
I'm still trying to find the best reed for it. The Gonzales FOF 3 1/2 may be the answer. Lurie 3 1/2 is a bit too soft. I haven't tried any Vandorens or Zondas on it yet.
The only drawback so far is slurring up to some altissimo notes such as F above the staff (using the standard fingering). The upper clarion and altissimo are a bit sharp, but not as sharp as with my previous mp.
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2003-06-21 16:04
GBK,
Play-testing and examining mouthpieces are two deferent things!
You wrote:
*****It (Vandoren) is still a mass produced, machine made mouthpiece which is not in the same league as the custom makers*****
How did you come to this conclusion?… play-testing?
If you ever examined Vandoren mouthpieces you would definitely notice that mouthpieces are hand finished and wouldn't throw this bold statement. Ramp, Baffle, Sidewalls, Throat, Side rail width correction are done by hand.
I bet that most of our custom mouthpiece makers learned a thing or two from Vandoren or they would stuck forever just copying old Kaspars and Chedevilles.
Vytas Krass
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Author: cyso_clarinetist
Date: 2003-06-21 18:40
"these pieces FAR outsurpass Vandorens, Vandorens are great to learn on, but I would hate to be stuck on one for life...but my Grabner on the other hand...." Just out of curiousity, how many vandoren's have you tried? have you possibily considered the mouthpiece facing just didn't match what you have now? I guess ignorance is bliss.
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Author: Shawn
Date: 2003-06-21 21:00
I don't understand why people feel the need to justify their mouthpiece by putting down others. I believe that some of the people here are just wanting to spread the word about the M30. It is a truly wonderful mouthpiece, and yes, I do play on one. If some think it to be an intermediate mouthpiece, then they don't have to play on it. The thought of Vandoren's being a student-line mouthpiece is utterly ridiculous. There are many outstanding clarinetists that are Vandoren artists. Manasse, Carbonare, and Greg Raden are just a few.
The M30 is a collaboration between Manasse and Vandoren. I know this because I was studying clarinet at Eastman with Manasse while they were developing it. I have spent years playing on ever mouthpiece mentioned above (excluding Grabner's), and the M30 is the only one that satisfies my every need.
*In reading my post, please notice that I managed not to put down any other mouthpieces.
-Shawn
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Author: DezzaG
Date: 2003-06-22 02:13
cyso, please dont make assumptions on how many Vandorens I have tried, I have played two in my life(B45 then M13) but I have tried many, I teach around 40 students so I have had the oppurtunity to play many Vandorens, in particular 5RV, B45 and M13's. Recently one of my students(who swore by his B45) switched to a Marcellus M13 I acquired. He now has a much warmer and less edgy sound. There are reasons why Vandorens are only around $50US. Could you imagine a pro violinist playing with a bow that costs $50? I don't think so, just like in anything in life..you pay for what you get. IMHO
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Author: dfh
Date: 2003-06-22 02:43
I have played "custom" m/ps for years, and have recently gone back to Vandoreens. The trick is that you either get lucky, or you try out at least a dozen of them to find one that plays like a custom. (there are ways to get that many at a time) Some are ok, a few are terrible, and one will be great. I think that the M13's are the least consistent (and personally never played one I like) But I've found that there is some relationship between the quality of the instrument and the quality of the m/p. I'd put an M13 on my R13, and it would sound and feel like !@#$, I'd stick it on a student's Bundy, and it sounds/feel pretty good. go figure.
Now, none of them have the same georgeous sound as my Greg Smith, but, unlike my GS, they will take a wider range of reeds, and have more flexible of sound and pitch. I played for a long time on a Stowell, and my M15 and my M30 are better.
I can't say I'll stick with these forever, or even for 3 months. In fact tonight was the first night I gave my M30 a good run. I think some of them sound really stuffy, and some M15's really shrill. again, NO two are alike!
Now - if I could only find a good reed.....
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-06-22 02:56
Shawn said:
<There are many outstanding clarinetists that are Vandoren artists. <Manasse, Carbonare, and Greg Raden are just a few.
I doubt that they are playing a stock Vandoren right out of the box.
Either they have had personal work done on their selected mouthpiece, or they had the luxury of going through dozens (hundreds?) of samples to find one which met their expectations.
As I and others have written numerous times, there is a vast difference in Vandoren mouthpieces with the same facing, thus many must be tried.
I have yet to hear of anyone buying a custom made mouthpiece, (Smith, Fobes, Hawkins, etc...) and needing to go through dozens to find a good one...GBK
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Author: Shawn
Date: 2003-06-22 15:34
GBK,
Actually, I know for a fact that Manasse plays on a stock Vandoren mouthpiece. As for the others, I don't know if they're stock or not, but neither do you.
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Author: cyso_clarinetist
Date: 2003-06-22 17:47
GBK I can back up exactly what Shawn said. Jon Manassee uses a stock mouthpiece, and most if not all of the Manassee students are using the mouthpieces as well. They don't play on it because he does but because its an excellent mouthpiece.
DezzaG - in your most recent post you walk about the vandoren mouthpieces you have tried, and you didn't mention the M15 or the M30. Quite honestly you have no grounds to make a judgment and I find your ideas quite irritating. I also really question your maturity if you actually judge a play by how expensive their equipment is. I play on a M30 mouthpiece with traditional (blue box) reeds. Jon Manassee also plays on the same. He just recently won an audition with the New York Met as principal clarinet playing on his fifty dollar mouthpiece and I am sure he beat out many many clarinetists with over priced mouthpieces, reeds and ligatures. In my own experience my vandoren mouthpiece took me to first in state, principal of the best youth orchestra and got me in the best colleges in the united states. Now I know that ones accomplishments are based on the person and not the equipment but I cannot help but think that better players know how to pick better equipment. Comparing clarinetists and clarinets and reeds to violinists and violins and bows is like comparing an apple to an orange. Have you ever heard of a clarinetist who plays on a three million dollar clarinet? Neither did I....
- James
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-06-22 18:00
cyso_clarinetist wrote:
> GBK I can back up exactly what Shawn said. Jon Manassee uses a
> stock mouthpiece, and most if not all of the Manassee students
> are using the mouthpieces as well. They don't play on it
> because he does but because its an excellent mouthpiece.
Well, if your teacher designed and plays a particular mouthpiece there's a subtle bit of pressure coming into play ...
Now, I have a very close personal acquaintance who went through an awful lot of M30s before finding one that played the way they wanted it to ... and then it was out of tune. They vary in quality just like all the other mouthpieces out there.
Now, about your remark about "over-priced mouthpieces" - who the heck are you to judge what's over priced and what isn't? Why don't you just stick to "I love my (whatever) and I didn't pay more than $50" rather than try and make comparisons to what other people paid and what the value is of their equipment? It's a snide little remark and doesn't belong here. People pay in relation to value received. Letting them know that something you treasure is of a lower price than what they treasure is fine; attempting to belittle them is not.
As to John Manasse - next year he may be playing something completely different. Who knows ...
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Author: Ljpg
Date: 2003-06-22 18:07
You have to admit though there are a lot of occasions where people just go for the name? Like fashion - paying for a label.
Still, even if it's a psycological thing, if it makes you feel better about the way you play, why not?
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Author: cyso_clarinetist
Date: 2003-06-22 18:47
Mark- Who the heck are you to judge what I say? Congrats on the son being a clarinet player but back off.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-06-22 20:24
cyso_clarinetist wrote:
> Mark- Who the heck are you to judge what I say?
Just another clarinet player ... whose had enough experience to know that I know a hell of a lot less now at 49 than I did at 18.
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Author: DezzaG
Date: 2003-06-22 23:48
cyso, how about you go just play on Rico reeds and leave us here alone? If you really think that a Vandoren mouthpiece is fine, go ahead but a lot of us here want to find a REALLY good mouthpiece and that means 1 or 2 steps in front of Vandorens. And as soon as my students try my mouthpiece they realise what they SHOULD be playing!
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Author: Ed
Date: 2003-06-23 00:04
"He just recently won an audition with the New York Met as principal clarinet playing on his fifty dollar mouthpiece and I am sure he beat out many many clarinetists"
I didn't know there was an audition. I thought Jon was appointed to take the chair for a year during Riccardo's leave. Also, who cares what Jon plays? He is a fine player and sounded good on when he played a 5RV lyre, or Marcellus, or O'Brien, or whatever. Charlie Parker played great on horns from pawnshops held together with tape, I guess that means I should find one of them. Play what works for you and forget about what people think or say.
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Author: Brandon
Date: 2003-06-23 04:20
So many things to say! My general impression is that people will swear by their equipment. Duh. Who doesn't? However, I don't care who made it, if it was a five buck mouthpiece and played well, I'd play it! I don't care if it said Bundy! The chances of finding a good one are near impossible though I would imagine! However, in my days I have several times spent two hundred bucks for a premium handmade mouthpiece that turned out to be crap. It was one of the biggies that GBK referred to as 'not worrying about Vandoren'. Somehow, I don't think that Vandoren cares too much either. I could be wrong, but I imagine that there are far more Vandorens sold than those others. My teacher from high school, and a professional orchestral clarinetist, has played Vandoren mouthpieces for as long as I have known her. That is almost a decade now I suppose, and I do not think she has changed. Certain individuals who have posted already seem to think that the higher the price, the better the mouthpiece! The sad thing is that most people(certainly not all!) would not know how to select a mouthpiece if their life depended on it. I had the opportunity to purchase a custom mouthpiece recently that the maker assured me that the 5 were the best he had. True? Heck no. Only one was worth the shipping cost! One or two steps in front of Vandorens? Please. And to be stuck playing one for the rest of your life? If that is such a bad thing, please tell that to a LOT of professionals. Too many people get caught up in thinking that more means better. If so, why are the highest priced clarinets not being used in all the orchestras? You would think that if they were WORTH the extra money the orchestral musicians would sacrifice to get that set of horns. Give me a Rico reed and a Vandoren reed. I am sure that I can make a believer out of some of those with a two hundred dollar mouthpiece and fancy high dollar reeds. People may have two hundred dollar mouthpieces but not be able to play Come to Jesus. Others may have a fifty dollar mouthpiece and have been playing in a professional orchestra since the day they graduated from conservatory.
Cheers!
Brandon
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Author: vin
Date: 2003-06-23 04:24
jon manasse was appointed for year/ won an internal audition WHATEVER because he plays great. he played great when he played on crystal, he played great on 5RV, he'd play great on whatever. I know some great players who HATE the m30; I know some who like it fine.
The M30, like all mouthpieces, is NOT the be all end all of mouthpieces. This idea of if you don't think it's great you stink because it works for mr. manasse is getting awfully tiring.
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Author: Bradley
Date: 2003-06-23 06:53
I smell a candidate for the "This thread is closed" category........
James- what exactly were you trying to contribute by that last post?
Bradley
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Author: cyso_clarinetist
Date: 2003-06-23 06:56
Bradley - That i appreciate a fellow clarinetists comments and they have made me think. last time i checked, thinking isn't highly over rated.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-06-23 11:47
Brandon wrote:
> So many things to say! My general impression is that people
> will swear by their equipment. Duh. Who doesn't? However, I
> don't care who made it, if it was a five buck mouthpiece and
> played well, I'd play it!
Brandon, somehow perhaps you're misunderstanding the whole point.
It doesn't matter that you're getting full value out of a $50 mouthpiece; the point is that someone else may have to spend $200 or more to get their full value. Feel lucky that you perceive that whatever you've bought for whatever money works great for you, but don't cop a superior attitude when you find out that someone else spent a great deal more. It really doesn't matter one iota in the grand scheme of things.
What are you going to say when you blow $500 on a Kaspar someday because it work just a bit better that the one you have now ... 
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Author: Andy
Date: 2003-06-23 11:58
I've played a M30 13 series and normal one in a test situation for about a week on each and thought they were great mpcs
I played a selmer C95 123 for three years and thought it was great.
I also played on a C85 115 for four or five years, but I don't like that so much, but at the time I thought it was great
I have a back up mpc that is a Vandoren B45 and think it is a great mpc
I play on a Greg Smith Kasper Cicero and think it is a great mouthpiece
My point: Oppinions change, there are heaps of great types of equiptment, price means nothing when buying a mpc (i know people who sound really bad playing on customs because they do not suit them), the M30's are worth a try if you are in the market of interested.
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Author: beejay
Date: 2003-06-23 12:26
dumb diversion perhaps, but is it worth having a Vandoren or other "stock" mouthpiece tweaked by a professional, or would they consider it beneath their dignity?
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-06-23 13:04
beejay wrote:
> dumb diversion perhaps, but is it worth having a Vandoren or
> other "stock" mouthpiece tweaked by a professional, or would
> they consider it beneath their dignity?
Many will work on a stock mouthpiece; indeed, a lot of bass clarinet mouthpieces are made this way.
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2003-06-23 14:06
Strangely I love Ricardo's playing but could never get any Pyne mouthpiece to work for myself...all of them were too stuffy.
One man's drink, another's poison.
David Dow
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Author: Fred
Date: 2003-06-23 14:32
Keep in mind also that there are many different kinds of player around. Some of the above posters are very serious players. They have proven themselves willing to play test 20+ mouthpieces to find one that they like. There are other players that either don't have a resource for 20+ mouthpieces, or simply aren't going to go to that length to find the "one" that works for them.
I fall into the category of player that isn't going to dedicate that kind of time and effort to find a great mouthpiece. Greg Smith provided me with one of each of his models - and one of them played better for me than I could have ever imagined. Should something happen to this one, I'll be calling Greg for a replacement. That works for me, and it's fast and dependable.
I've got no beef with better players searching through dozens of mouthpieces to find a gem, but I'm thankful that I have a source for very good mouthpieces that doesn't require that kind of herculean effort.
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Author: Ron Jr.
Date: 2003-06-23 20:07
I used to use a Morgan RM-6. This has been my mouthpiece for at least 3 years. It is custom made. The one comment I always received was that I had a really great tone.
Several months ago I got braces my my tone quality really suffered. I tried some of my old mouthpieces but I sounded worse. Then I tried a Vandoren M13 Lyre that my friend absolutely hated. I can say that for the moment, the Vandoren gives me the best combination of tone quality, intonation and response. For now it is the mouthpiece that works best in my condition.
Since tone quality, tuning etc., are dependent upon so many variables, it is possible that a custom-made mouthpiece might not be best for everyone.
Good luck with your selection.
Ron Jr.
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Author: CPW
Date: 2003-06-23 20:23
Wow......this thread is sure flogging a dead horse.
Time to send it to the glue factory
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2003-06-24 12:57
I think the tip opening decides of producing sound sometimes over the design of the facing.......
.as to colour and depth of the tone that is an individual thing...here it is dictated by baffle/bore and the facing leagnth.
David Dow
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2003-06-25 00:15
Once, when I was about 13, I saved up SO much money and got myself my first mouthpiece (other than the stock one that came with my old Conn). It was a Vandoren B45. I bought it because I was told to.
A week later, at the ripe old age of 13, I took it back and decided on a C85 120 (Selmer).
Other clarinet players didn't understand, they said there was nothing wrong with the mouthpiece, and so did my teacher. What they didn't know, and the reason I'm still playing clarinet and they gave it up the following year, is that I had a personal preference, I cared about how I sounded and how comfortable I was with the mouthpiece I owned.
Today, I play a Greg Smith. 'AussieNick' who posts here uses something very different, yet we have the same teacher, and he is an excellent player. I've tried his setup and hated it, and he hates mine. But we both sound fine.
I think there's something in this for all of us.
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2003-06-25 03:20
I definitely prefer the fullness of the B40 far over the batch of M30s I have tried....but I tend to have the B40 as my European style sound piece, and my Hite for North American playing piece.
Generally I found the M30 a bit shrill in the upper clarion and altissimo in places...however, it has a much nicer sound than the Usual stuff one runs into....Well worth trying for any clarinet player.
As always play a mouthpiece for a bit before succumbing to the new piece buy now thing.
David Dow
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Author: robbieg
Date: 2003-06-30 19:17
Yes a lot of professionals are willing to work from a stock mpc, my main bass clar mpc is actually a modified stock vito mpc.
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