 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Jerry
Date: 2003-06-20 00:00
I recently discovered that my A4 trill key (second from top) is over 30 cents sharp. How common is this on R-13? Is this something that can be corrected by a good tech? Every other note, at least the non-trill keys, seem to be close to in tune, within a few cents. I missed this one!
Jerry
The Villages, FL
Post Edited (2003-06-21 12:07)
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Author: BobD
Date: 2003-06-20 12:19
Hmm....haven't heard that before on this BB and guess I have assumed that trill keys aren't planned to be in tune(with what?). Let's see, enlarge the hole or reduce it......!
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-06-20 15:31
As a suggestion, if your A and G# are well in tune, you might try slightly reducing the "rise" of the trill key pad by a thiin piece of cork [or springy plastic "bumper"] under the "touch button" and check its intonation effect. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Jerry
Date: 2003-06-20 17:44
This is particularly strange because using the same A trill key for the alternate B flat fingering is perfectly in tune. So it must have something to do with the combination of the side G#/A flat key with that trill key. Wierd.
My tech (who I have just begun e-mail communication with on this item and who has not yet reached a conclusion) indicated that a fix he uses is to shellac the interior of the tone hole, I guess to reduce its diameter to some degree to lower the tone. But I'd be concerned that it would adversely affect the really nice alternate B flat.
All of this is a compromise, isn't it. Like enduring the awful side effects of medication versus dying from the ailment.
Don, I will forward your suggestion to him. Thanks.
Jerry
The Villages, FL
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Author: Jerry
Date: 2003-06-20 18:06
Don said...
***"As a suggestion, if your A and G# are well in tune, you might try slightly reducing the "rise" of the trill key pad by a thiin piece of cork [or springy plastic "bumper"] under the "touch button" and check its intonation effect."***
Don...when I (not very carefully) tried your proposed solution (when my teacher suggested it during my lesson 2 days ago) it just seemed to create a fuzzier tone, not a flatter one.
However, when I more carefully tried what you suggested, using greater precision in exactly how high the pad is off the hole, it did flatten the tone without a significant increase in fuzz. This points out the need for precision, within the tolerances of the thickness of a sheet or two of paper, to achieve the correct effect!
What is going on that makes a "too high pad" make a tone sharper? Is it the increased air flow or speed that raises the pitch? Maybe the higher key causes a loss of "simulated" tonehole extension that would otherwise lower the pitch. Hmmm.
It will be interesting to see how this adjustment effects the pitch or tone of the alternate B flat, if at all. One can only experiement.
Jerry
The Villages, FL
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-06-21 01:35
I'm glad your experimentation is showing progress, Jerry, I've done a bit of increasing the "venting" of fuzzy notes on some of my and other's cls, with some success. My pro-repairer friends told me about it, suggesting I should show them what I had done, for their learning, ?amusement? and correction?? That and tonehole modification are pro jobs IMHO, the acoustic effects are beyond me, but have been [somewhat] described in our clar "good books". Glad to have been of some help. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Bob Schwab
Date: 2003-06-21 03:55
For what it's worth, my Yamaha A4 trill key is also significantly more sharp. Since it's my B flat key of choice, I'd rather have it play B flat in tune than A.
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2003-06-21 12:05
This key is used for trilling from G-A and for an alternative throat B-flat. It's much more important that the B-flat is in tune than the A, and it is most common for this A to be sharp using that fingering. The fingering is not meant to be used to play a sustained throat A. Lip down the trill a bit- trills sound better in tune if the upper note is in tune. If you adjust the intonation for the A to be in tune, then your B-flat will likely be to low.
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