 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Melissa
Date: 2003-06-06 13:45
I don't really understand how the double lip works? is it that you curl you lip over top of your teeth to play? or do you just try really hard to stop from putting your teeth onto the mouth piece? I tried these two things and I find it feels like I am going to drop my insturment, is this supposed to feel like that? am I just supposed to get used to it?
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Author: William
Date: 2003-06-06 15:21
Use your upper lip for support, not your upper teeth. That is, curl your upper lip over your upper teeth, preventing your teeth from resting on the beak as with the conventional style embouchure. This does feel wobbly at first and is definately not recommended for marching band activity. But as your embouchure develops strength and you learn to control things, double lip does work--and quite well as many professional players use this style all the time. It may require a sightly softer reed and more closed tip mouthpiece, but it pays off in "sound" dividends for the long term. It is even good for a "short term investment" as a warm-up to your regular practice sessions in that it gives you perspective in getting more of your upper lip "into the action" even with your conventional "teeth on" embouchure. One should never rely solely on the upper teeth for 100% support (which results in a thin, "pinched" sound). Using more upper lip will give your sound resonance and body.
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Author: cassie
Date: 2003-06-06 15:32
How interesting, I didn't know this...It always looks so uncomfortable, like it would hurt!
cassie
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2003-06-06 15:40
Yes it does hurt a wee bit...that is why the clarinet
public in general does shy away from the double lip
technique...
~~~~~~
David Dow
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2003-06-06 16:42
This is an interesting discussion!
I use what I'd describe as a typical clarinet embouchure with the top teeth resting on the mouthpiece beak. However, over the past year or so I've taken a different approach on my saxophones.
This started on c-melody. I've spent a considerable amount of time developing my sound on that instrument. Since I use the c-mel mostly in a contemporary jazz setting, I've needed to push my horn's level of projection. Something that I stumbled upon in the course of experimenting with my horn is to lift the top teeth off the mouthpiece while keeping the upper lip in a similar position as before. That is, not curling it into what is usually thought of as a double embouchure. This change in my embouchure resulted in a completely amazing difference in my sound. It's much bigger and resonant. In addition, it has a greater amount of volume and projection than before. I should also mention that I'm taking in more mouthpiece. Just the other day I tried using a single embouchure just for the heck of it and the results were a complete disappointment. Thus, I quickly went back to what has been working so well for me.
A couple of weeks alto I tried this modified embouchure on my alto sax and experienced a similar improvement in my sound. The before and after differences are remarkable.
I haven't tried an embouchure similar to this yet on clarinet. I can hear the voice of one of my clarinet teachers in my mind getting on my case for even thinking about it! ha ha ha Never the less, after reading William's message I'm feeling encouraged to give it a try.
Do you know of any clarinetists who use an embouchure like what I described?
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Author: BobD
Date: 2003-06-06 17:42
Amazing! I was taught to play double lip and still do. Your upper lip gets used to it just as your lower lip does and your upper lip muscles get strengthened too. Putting my teeth on the mouthpiece sends chills up my spine. I hear there have been players who played the mp upside down too.
My impression is that years ago double lip was the standard method and somewhere along the way it changed to single. Now a new generation is discovering it!
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Author: vin
Date: 2003-06-06 20:48
If one goes to google and types in "Ralph McLane," there is an article that he wrote about double lip playing. Very one-sided (i.e. pro double lip) but a good basic description by one of its most famous proponents. The site is www.parkcitycatalog.com/CDRomProject.html. I have no affiliation with this project, I was just searching for stuff of McLane.
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Author: Bob A
Date: 2003-06-07 18:48
Vin, do you (or anyone else) have an idea what this CD will cost?
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Author: kdennyclarinet
Date: 2003-06-13 13:47
David L. Dow wrote:
"Yes it does hurt a wee bit...that is why the clarinet
public in general does shy away from the double lip
technique... "
If it hurts, then you are "biting" to control the reed. Trying double-lip can usually help to identify biters. Adding double lip warm-ups to your daily routine can help to refocus your embouchure and help to eliminate the biting.
-Kristen
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Author: FrankM
Date: 2003-06-13 14:48
Roger, I'm with you. I try and keep my upper teeth just barely touching the mouthpiece and use it both on clarinet and sax....I think it really improved my sound
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Author: vin
Date: 2003-06-13 15:18
I don't know what it costs, but it does sound intriguing although chances are GBK already knows everything in there.
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2003-06-13 15:43
When comparing how a change in embouchure affects your sound, it is probably best to either record yourself to see the difference or ask someone else's opinion, because I would speculate that having your teeth in contact with the mouthpiece may transmit more of the sound through your teeth and skull than would using a double-lip embouchure, thus affecting your perception of how you sound.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-06-13 22:51
vin...If you have The Clarinet Volume 19 Number 2, Feb/March 1992, there is a complete discography of all Ralph McLane recordings spanning 1943-1951 with the Philadelphia Orchestra and two chamber music recordings (Brahms, Ravel) which are still available...GBK
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Author: Ted
Date: 2003-06-13 23:24
I've played double lip on the clarinet since I was a teenager. I think it does give you a bit more controll over the sound. It was primarily used by the French and Italian school of players. And to answer Bobd's question, yes, many Italian players used to play with the mouthpiece "up side down" to our way of thinking. In fact, supposedly, Gino Cioffi, the former clarinettist with the Boston Symphony, played with an "upsidedown" mouthpiece when he first came to this country (USA). He later changed the mpc but kept the double lip. Years ago I studied with Dave Webber and he had THE most beautiful sound on the clarinet using double lip embouchure. - TD
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Author: BobD
Date: 2003-06-14 13:25
Yes, I believe double lip does give more control of pitch except perhaps in the altissimo where I sometimes switch to single lip for the higher notes.
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Author: Hiroshi
Date: 2003-06-14 21:42
Mr.Greg Smith once posted an article of interview with Robert Marcelus.
I remember he said there double lip embouchure lessen the volume definitely. Where was that article?
By the way, some people say double 'rip' is right in stead of double 'lip' in
Klarinet mailing list. Which is right?
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Author: BobD
Date: 2003-06-15 15:28
Nice try Hiroshi, but it's "dubber rip"......think I caught your intended humour
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Author: Bob A
Date: 2003-06-15 16:33
Thanks Rob. Excellent, and in PDF I can file it.
Bob A
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