 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2013-12-20 08:51
Several years ago I tried Forestone reeds and decided they were not for me. Recently I decided to revisit them in case they, or possibly I, had changed. I normally play a Rico Royal 3.5 or a Legere 3, so using their chart I ordered a Premium Cut 4.5. It plays well with a very good tone, but I find it a bit harder than I'm really comfortable with. Has anybody had any success with scraping Forestone reeds to soften them slightly?
Tony F.
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Author: AAAClarinet
Date: 2013-12-20 13:28
I believe someone mentioned putting them in hot or boiling water for a short period of time. I have not tried this.
AAAClarinet
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Author: William
Date: 2013-12-20 20:02
You can adjust Forestone reeds the same way you do cane. They can be
scraped and clipped, but only a little at any one time. I have found it very
effective to scrap the heart of the reed about 1/2 inch from the tip ever so
slightly to soften it and improve its response. No real need to balance
Forestones as that is already done for you. I do not advise soaking them in
boiling water--I seem to remember that was a recommendation for the Legere
reed which is 100% plastic. Forestones are a combination of bamboo fibres
plastics and excess heat may harm their composition. I am happy to hear that
you like the new Premium Reeds, I have not had the opportunity to try them
as yet. So far, I am still playing Forestones that are two and three years old--
that includes reeds for all of my clarinets (effer, sopranos and bass) as well as
my alto and tenor sax. Those sax reeds are marvelous.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2013-12-20 20:28
Many thanks for the suggestions. I'll back it off a touch tomorrow.
Tony F.
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Author: ariel3
Date: 2013-12-20 22:45
I have been using Forestone clarinet reeds for about three years now. I use the original design and love them.
I have softened them slightly by dipping about an eighth inch of the reed tip into a cup of water that has just been brought to a boil for 2 to 3 seconds. This works and will not damage the reed. This is extremely helpful if the reed is stuffy in response in the beginning stages. This is my routine and out of 16 reeds that I have had during the past three years, I have only had to discard two. And - one had to be discarded because I hit the tip with my hand.
In my communication with Forestone, I believe that this was offered as a remedy.
Hope this helps.
Gene Hall
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2013-12-21 04:03
I decided to try scraping the reed back first, as it's a process that I'm familiar with. It worked just fine, the reed now feels the same as a Rico Royal 3-3.5, but sounds different. I won't say better, because that's a subjective judgement. My wife thinks the Forestone sounds better. I did find that my favourite mouthpiece, Selmer B85-115, works less well with it than the one I carry as a spare, a Hite (model unknown).
Tony F.
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2013-12-21 04:43
Old habits die hard apparently. We have always 'fiddled' around with cane reeds, forever trying to make them play (sound) better.
Now a new form of reed (synthetic) is available to those who are willing to try something new. But some just can't help themselves. They have to 'touch up' the new synthetic (Forestone) which is meant to be used as is.
Even the makers of this new type of reed say that there is no need to modify their reeds. The correct approach is to match the correct mouthpiece with the correct resistance of the reed.
These Forestone reeds of plastic & bamboo pulp are as near perfect as can be. There is no such thing as an 'unbalanced' Forestone.
But they do wear out and get weaker over time but it takes a lot of use before this happens. Much longer than a cane reed.
I"ve already 'worn out ' several Forestones and have then 'fiddled' with these to try and get them to continue being used. This involves using a reed trimmer to remove a tiny slither off the blade. This has resulted in success more or less but I"ve found that you can really only do this once. Remove too much and the whole reed is then obviously 'out of wack'. Time to move onto a new one. And these marvellous reeds need no 'breaking in' and they never get water logged and their the blades never warp.
Are they as good as a top quality cane reed. Probably not , but they sure are convenient. I just did a Xmas concert with a group of other players , mostly strings and a choir on my Ridenour C Clarinet and it was a delight to play with the Forestone synthetic.
Skyfacer
Post Edited (2013-12-21 09:46)
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2013-12-21 06:46
Barry,
If you read my original post, you'll see that the reason that I "fiddled" with the reed is because using Forestone's own comparison chart I ended up with a reed harder than I'm comfortable with. As Forestone, unlike Legere, do not offer an exchange program, my choice was to either put up with an unsatisfactory reed or make it work for me. I have done so, and now it does. In an ideal world I would have perfectly matched the reed to the mouthpiece, but in the imperfect world we live in I just made it work.
I consider this to be a perfectly legitimate course of action. As received, the reed was probably perfect for someone else, but not for me.
Interesting to hear that you play a Ridenour C clarinet. I've been contemplating buying one. At the moment I play a no-name Chinese instrument, which works OK after a lot of tweaking but was pretty rough as received.
Tony F.
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2013-12-21 12:51
Hi Tony. Concerning the C Clarinet, I started a discussion about this pitched Clarinet in general and T Ridenour's RCP-579C in particular with my thread "Evolution of the C Soprano (08-13-2013)
I use one of T Ridenour's mouthpieces , the Eroica with a Forestone 3.5 or sometimes even a 4.0. As you probably already know, you can alter the resistance of these reeds by slightly raising or lowering the reed in relation to the tip of the mouthpiece. Slightly higher = more resistance / Slightly lower = less resistance. We're talking probably 1/3 mm approx.
Skyfacer
Post Edited (2013-12-21 13:04)
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Author: William
Date: 2013-12-22 21:23
"Are they as good as a top quality cane reed. Probably not ,........"
I respectfully disagree--I think they are better than the best cane reed I've ever played. Like a new mouthpiece, you must learn *how* to play them. If you embouchure is in top condition and you accept the new feel of the synthetic, you too will discover the joy of play on Forestone reeds. They are more consistant, never need moistening or break in and sound just as good, and I think, better than cane in all registers.
BTW, I'm going to try the boiling water trick for some of my older reeds and see if they can be resurrected. Peace and Joy to All, Everywhere.......
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2013-12-22 19:41
Hi there William. It's nice to know there is a 'like minded' person on this discussion board.
Yes, they are an excellent product. Having more money than sense at the time, I purchased the whole range of resistance grades from 1 up to 5.
I found that the grades 1.0 / 1.5 / & 2.0 are so soft that I can't figure out what use they'd be on any Clarinet mouthpiece. They're unusable even on the 'so called' Vandoren Jazz MP , the 5JB with it's 'open' and short lay that I have although the 2.5 is usable. The grades 4.5 & 5 are too stiff for me but the grades 3.0 / 3.5 / & 4.0 are excellent with several of my MPs
I've now almost completely gone over to using the Forestone synthetic now. Almost , as I still have a small selection of cane reeds left and do use them now and again. Mostly Rico Royal and Michell Lurie. They are also excellent , most of the time , but just as I settle into a good one, it doesn't last. That's the real downside to cane reeds.
Skyfacer
Post Edited (2013-12-22 19:50)
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Author: Shiney
Date: 2013-12-24 04:29
Barry Vincent wrote:
I've now almost completely gone over to using the Forestone
> synthetic now. Almost , as I still have a small selection of
> cane reeds left and do use them now and again. Mostly Rico
> Royal and Michell Lurie. They are also excellent , most of the
> time , but just as I settle into a good one, it doesn't last.
> That's the real downside to cane reeds.
>
>
> Post Edited (2013-12-22 19:50)
Hi Barry (and everyone) from New Zealand.
New member -- just (really, just) taken up clarinet in addition to trombone and double bass, all primarily in jazz.
Always interested in non-traditional materials for things like trombone mouthpieces and bass strings, and have ordered a couple of Forestone reeds. I'm using Royal Rico 2.5s just now, and given that you also use these, I thought you might have some inkling as to their relative strength as compared with the Royals.
I also have a Fibracell 2.0 -- I like the ease of use, although it's a tad buzzy compared to the cane reeds. It'd do for jazz, I guess (!), but I'm looking forward to trying the Forestones.
Thanks for your thoughts.
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2013-12-24 00:03
Hi Shiney
You can go to the Forestone Site and see the comparison chart there.
Basically a Rico Royal 2.5 is between a Forestone F3 and F3.5.
I'd go for both the F3.5 and the F3 with a mouthpiece of an intermediate tip opening and meduim long lay such as the Vandoran B45.
You'll have to experiment and remember it will take a little time to get use to the Synthetic Reed. Just persevere.
Skyfacer
Post Edited (2013-12-24 00:29)
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Author: Shiney
Date: 2013-12-24 01:54
Thanks for your replies, Barry and Tony
The F3 is on its way -- I'm using a Rico Reserve X5 on an old B&H Edgware rubber clarinet (purchased used at least in part on the basis of some comments on this board as a bit of a "sleeper" jazz clarinet). The mouthpiece it came with was a bit rough and very difficult to play ("Rene Duval" is stamped on it). The Rico Reserve is a dream by comparison.
Given that I'm not used to reeds of any sort, I'm hoping it won't take long!
In my brief acquaintance with these things, I've found no two strength comparison charts will agree on the strengths of "standard" reeds, and I don't know enough to interpret the differences.
Thanks again
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Author: kdk
Date: 2013-12-24 06:55
Wow! That's so hard to read on my screen! Especially the yellow on the light green.
Karl
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Author: kdk
Date: 2013-12-24 07:11
I'm looking at the comparison chart. As far as I can tell, the "Premium Cut" #5 - the hardest available - barely comes up to the strength of a #3-1/2 V12. Is that the experience of those here who use them?
I have tried a number of what I guess are the regular clarinet reeds and not been happy with the response on any of my mouthpieces, all of which are close-tipped and long-curved enough to pretty much require a V12 #4 or 4-1/2 (or equivalent in other brands). I'd be interested in trying the Premium Cut, but the range of strength looks too soft for my use without completely changing the type of mouthpiece I use.
Am I missing something?
On a related but tangential note, I just got a #4 Legere Signature that is so similar to the cane reeds I normally play on that I'm not sure I could tell the difference in a blind test (of course, a blind test is really difficult - the texture of the plastic against my lip would make the Legere immediately identifiable).
I won't know until I get a couple more whether this is a fluke or they've improved - none of the ones I've bought previously have worked well.
Karl
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2013-12-24 04:55
Yes KDK, it's their new comparison chart and not only is it difficult to read, but it doesn't seem to list Rico Royal reeds and there are less Forestone grades listed. They've probably discontinued the F1 F1.5 F2 & perhaps F2.5 because they are far too 'soft' .
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2013-12-24 11:10
My recent experience with Forestone reeds is that their comparison chart gave me a reed somewhat harder than the Rico Royal that I normally play, perhaps by as much as a whole number. The reed responded well to scraping, but really if their chart was the useful tool it is supposed to be, this shouldn't have been necessary.
Tony F.
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Author: Shiney
Date: 2014-01-03 09:38
Just arrived back from Oz to find my new Forestones waiting for me, an F3 and an F2.5. I travelled with a Fibracell 2 to practice on, and the difference is marked.
In my meagre estimation, the Forestone 2.5 isn't far off the equivalent Rico Royal for hardness, perhaps a touch firmer; the F3 is the one for me of the two.
The Fibracell is great for the convenience, and while it gives a bit of edge to the tone in the chalmeau (which I rather like), it is harsh in the clarion from about the F up. The Forestone 3 is smooth as silk by comparison, certainly a nicer tone up there than either the Fibracell or Rico Royal. Can't speak for the comparison with other reeds.
For my purposes (exclusively jazz, and as my third instrument), I can see no reason to use cane. So thanks again for the help, guys!
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Author: Ed Lowry
Date: 2014-06-06 04:58
This is what Forestone said to me when I asked about how they rate the strengths of their reeds:
My question was: Comment: I have ordered and used Forestone reeds before, but then switched to Legere. I'm interested in trying Forestone again. Looking at your strength chart, it appears that if I'm used to playing a VanDoren 3-1/2, (and Legere 3-12 as well), I should order a Forestone 5. But it doesn't seem plausible that your hardest reed is in the "middle range" of VanDoren strengths.
What do you think?
Forestone's answer:
Thank you for your message. We adjusted the strength using several mouthpieces and as a result our F5 for tenor, bari and clarinet matches with Vandoren 3.5. it might be a middle range, as you point out, but I wouldn't say it is a soft reed.
Best regards
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Author: dperreno
Date: 2014-06-26 20:40
I would have to agree with their charts. I had to move up to a 5 for my Bb in order to get close to a V blue 3-1/2 strength. For bass clarinet, I use a Tenor Sax 4-1/2 to get close to a V blue 3.
Doug
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