 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: David Eichler
Date: 2024-03-29 11:22
I haven't played clarinet in cold weather before. I recently bought a plastic clarinet for this purpose (Backun Alpha). Do any of you use a different type of barrel (either a different bore or a shorter one) for this purpose sometimes?
Post Edited (2024-03-29 12:55)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: MarkS
Date: 2024-03-29 14:30
In case you are not aware, the tenons on the Backun Alpha are not standard size. So you would likely need to get a custom barrel. I bought an Alpha for outdoor use, and expected to play it with my Behn adjustable barrel, not realizing that it would not fit. I believe there is a statement on the Backun website that says that if you want to change the barrel, you can go to a Backun dealer to get one that will fit.
Mark
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2024-03-29 15:11
Well, if you are talking about EVERYBODY in a group playing in cold, outdoor setting, then the pitch of the group will be low and you need not worry about it.
If you're talking about playing to a track..........there will be a problem. Personally, I'd lower the pitch of the track by some amount within a Digital Audio Workstation first so that your pitch will be closer in cold weather conditions.
...........Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2024-03-29 15:21
I've played a few times at very low temperatures, with a German barrel (about 55mm in length) on a Boehm clarinet. However, the shorter the barrel, the sharper the throat tones goes relative the rest of the horn. Thus it would be best if the whole ensemble could just lower its general tuning to where you could continue using your standard barrel.
Post Edited (2024-03-30 12:40)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: graham
Date: 2024-03-29 16:25
Paul’s point applies with winds, but strings go the other way, sharp. Bassoonists tell me that the effect of cold on their pitch is much less than other ww instruments.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2024-03-30 12:20
If strings are involved, and if they are understanding and cooperative (not always the case....), they could quite easily tune down to a level suitable to the winds - with probably a lot better tuning for the ensemble as a whole.
After all, some string players alter between "normal" and baroque pitch (usually A=415 Hz, about a semitone below the usual 440-442) on the same instrument, when playing at different settings - so a tuning down to say around 435 should definitely not be a problem. Perhaps you could remind them about this, in case they are a bit unwilling? 
Only those with perfect pitch may suffer a bit, but since also that can be variable (as A=439, 440, 441, 442, etc.), some of them may suffer anyway.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Eichler
Date: 2024-04-01 08:39
Mark, yes, I noticed that about the size of the upper tenon and its barrel. I didn't know whether that was how it was designed or was a manufacturing issue. I don't know why they do this. Now I don't know whether I want to have the tenon modified to work with other barrels.
"In case you are not aware, the tenons on the Backun Alpha are not standard size. So you would likely need to get a custom barrel. I bought an Alpha for outdoor use, and expected to play it with my Behn adjustable barrel, not realizing that it would not fit. I believe there is a statement on the Backun website that says that if you want to change the barrel, you can go to a Backun dealer to get one that will fit."
Mark
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: m1964
Date: 2024-04-01 20:33
David Eichler wrote:
> Mark, yes, I noticed that about the size of the upper tenon and
> its barrel. I didn't know whether that was how it was designed
> or was a manufacturing issue. I don't know why they do this.
> Now I don't know whether I want to have the tenon modified to
> work with other barrels.
>
Any modifications would void the warranty (if you clarinet came with it).
If you play in a church or a hall where the temp. is lower than 70-72F, I'd just get the Backun barrel 1mm shorter than the standard one.
I am in a similar situation when playing with the strings- they would not want to change tuning. I am using shorter barrels that came with my clarinets (both came with the US standard and 1mm shorter barrels).
It allows me to tune to 440 at the start of a rehearsal and, after warming up, I pull out 1mm extra or switch to std. sized barrels.
Post Edited (2024-04-02 02:47)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Eichler
Date: 2024-04-03 05:53
To clarify further, this is primarily for playing jazz, so will often involve a keyboard and sometimes vibes.
I recently tried the barrel from a Backun/Bliss clarinet on the Alpha. This barrel fits both the Alpha and my R13, and sounds much better than the Alpha barrel, which sounds a bit stuffy by comparison. Now I really want to use other barrels with the Alpha. However, since my purpose in using the Alpha is for challenging climatic conditions, either cold or very hot, would using a wooden barrel defeat the purpose of better intonational stability with a synthetic instrument? If so, are there any synthetic barrels that people particularly like? I have a Charles Bay synthetic barrel that I have used on my R13, but for me it is nothing to write home about in terms of sound, and will not currently fit the Alpha without modification. Lastly, can a 66mm barrel be turned into a 65mm barrel, and should I also consider a 67mm barrel for very hot weather, or will pulling out a 66mm barrel suffice?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2024-04-03 14:15
I have great results with the delrin version of Jonathan Copeland's barrel. It is one of the best barrels I've ever used bar none (I prefer it over the wood version for its ability to provide even more sound).
He lists specific sizes but the last time I checked, you can order pretty much any custom size.
https://www.betterclarinets.com/product-page/custom-barrel
..............Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: super20dan
Date: 2024-04-03 19:33
i use deg barrels and have a variety of lengths to choose from. i think they are no longer made but every one i have preforms execellent
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2024-04-04 12:38
Concerning dimensional stability of wood vs plastic, I lived for a long time under the misconception that a plastic clarinet wouldn't shrink when cold - until I played a plastic Buffet Prodige at about +3 C (about 37 F, which was inside a snow castle) with several keys binding after only 5-10 minutes of playing, making the instrument unplayable.
Thus also plastic is shrinking/expanding with temperature, but unlike wood it's affected very little by humidity changes (or maybe even not at all in the scale of practical effects on tuning). Just did some "googling", but didn't find out how much each material is changing relative each other from temperature changes - only that when comparing plastic to plastic, e.g. Delrin is changing less than some cheaper plastics, as ABS (also that plastics generally changes more than metals).
The German 55mm barrel I mentioned previously was wooden, which got trough without harm on another occasion playing outdoors on sea ice (with the audience arriving on an icebreaker....) - but that in itself isn't of course any guarantee for another wooden barrel, or other occasions.
Concerning a keyboard, some have variable pitch. A vibraphone should go sharper with lower temperature, as strings - so quite a challenge with woodwinds.
Post Edited (2024-04-04 12:52)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Eichler
Date: 2024-04-06 06:11
Also, are there any synthetic barrels that people particularly like, that have maximum projection and ring to them? This is for jazz or other non-classical music, though I would want to avoid a lean or harsh sound. None of the synthetic barrels I have tried have the ring of my Chadash or Backun barrels, which I wouldn't want to use in challenging climatic conditions, which is the purpose of using a plastic clarinet.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: marcia
Date: 2024-04-07 04:17
We could also ask the question--Why are we expected to play outside in the cold? The fingers don't work as well, and if it's cold enough the embouchure does not work as well either. I played in one Santa Claus parade (northern hemisphere, winter) when it was so cold I could not make a seal around the mouthpiece. The air escaped through the corners of my mouth. There was little, if any, air going through the instrument. That was the end of my playing out in cold weather. ![[frown]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie2.gif)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2024-04-07 04:33
Military bands regularly find themselves committed to outdoor gigs that are compulsory. One big example is the Presidential Inauguration (end of January in Washington D.C.). Another is the regular military funeral detail conducted by the US Army Ceremonial Band at Arlington National Cemetery; rain or shine, warm or frigid.
But I agree, if you don’t have to, don’t do it.
…………… Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Eichler
Date: 2024-04-09 02:14
At least in a military band, it is all wind instruments that are all going flat in the cold. And, if there are any solo clarinet passages, I would hope that a band director would moderate the level of volume of the ensemble so the solo can be heard and the player doing the solo would not have to struggle further with intonation, straining to play at beyond a reasonable maximum volume just to be heard.
However, the kind of cold I am most concerned with is that which risks cracking a wood clarinet, not literally freezing cold.
"Military bands regularly find themselves committed to outdoor gigs that are compulsory. One big example is the Presidential Inauguration (end of January in Washington D.C.). Another is the regular military funeral detail conducted by the US Army Ceremonial Band at Arlington National Cemetery; rain or shine, warm or frigid.
But I agree, if you don’t have to, don’t do it."
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
