 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: GenEric
Date: 2019-04-10 21:00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXh9PtdTQ4c
Buffet just released -another- clarinet. Thoughts?
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Author: fernie121
Date: 2019-04-10 23:27
Looks like the same tradition with extra bells and whistles so they can charge way more.
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2019-04-11 00:27
More about increasing sales than providing solid, objective facts about the improvements made. The presentation uses sublimation to suggest that if Martin Frost is trying a new Tradition, it must be among the best in the world and maybe it would be a good idea to get one fast so you can play like he does. No sooner had the "old" Tradition appeared than the Legend followed quickly on its heels, for a much higher price. So now with people wishing that they could afford the Legend, (which sells for just under $8000), Buffet offers a new improved Tradition that supposedly incorporates the superior qualities of the Legend, but at a less scorching price. But what exactly are these improvements? Maybe they are solid and substantial but we are never told. Something more than a changed logo and low F correction key? Bottom line: When you try any clarinet forget everything you saw in the ad; forget Martin Frost--he can multiarticulate "Let's Be Happy" on a $40 Chinese stencil if he has to. How does the clarinet play for you? Is it worth the extra cash? How does it compare to other clarinets by the same maker and by other makers? Does it do anything better than the clarinet you already have? That's all that matters.
Post Edited (2019-06-09 06:43)
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Author: DaphnisetChloe
Date: 2019-04-11 02:21
I tried the previous Tradition and the Legende last year and they lack the ability to play fortissimo without a change in the tone (it becomes harsher) which my current and significantly cheaper Festivals are able to accomplish. So unless they have solved this difference it is unlikely to be worth the low F correction key and more aesthetic appearance.
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2019-04-14 07:36
Well, if you're interested, find a place to try them out. With any of this stuff, you never know how it's going to work for you personally until you try it, and with Buffets, you probably need to play about 10 of them so you can triangulate where the model as a whole is at. A lot of what people have told me has been very helpful, but there's no substitute for direct experience. I've been told by someone who should know that the low correction keys are a lot more important on A than Bb, I followed his advice, and it's worked out that way for me. Having done them both ways, I wouldn't want to do the Brahms trio or quintet again without the correction vents.
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Author: Kalashnikirby
Date: 2019-04-16 22:50
All this advertising effort for an instrument that is basically a Legende without the Gold posts and Greenline Toneholes. What baffles me is that Fröst needs to take part in this - as if he didn’t have a decent income already. Why this utter nonsense about the instrument‘s stability in all climates?
I liked the previous Tradition, though it’s overpriced. Nice to see the new one has untreated wood. The only reason they „updated“ the Instrument was probably to standardise their cylindrical bore instruments - which might help cutting costs. But no, it’s a brilliant new Instrument because Fröst says so.
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Author: ruben
Date: 2019-04-16 23:07
Seabreeze sums up the situation with his usual brio! I know an excellent low F correction key: you tighten you embouchure a bit. It's cheaper than having extra keys.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: gatto
Date: 2019-04-16 23:35
It seems that Fröst played the Tradition already since a while, also in concerts.
Yes, the Tradition was over-priced, even more expansive than a Prestige without having the prestige features. The new model now has prestige feature, but I guess it will also cost a lot more (maybe the same price as the Tosca).
I could image (but I don't know) that the former Tradition, because of its cylindric bore, had problematic intonation concerning low E and F, which made a low-F correction advisable.
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Author: fernie121
Date: 2019-04-16 23:48
I do have to admit that the Tradition is a nice sounding clarinet. Imo the best Buffet has to offer by a long shot. So expensive though.
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2019-04-17 04:28
Just to clarify matters for international posters who might be looking at very different pricing, at one retail US store now, the Buffet Tradition (presumably the old model?) is listed at $4,811 or $5,185 with silver keys. The Legend is $7,245, quite a bit more. So what is the new Tradition going to sell for? When the "old" Tradition came out a few years ago, it was selling in the US for about $4,000, not very expensive for a pro clarinet.
See Ann Arbor Clarinets: https://a2clarinet.com/instruments
Post Edited (2019-04-17 05:18)
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2019-04-18 07:12
Well if they used this horn, the upper notes above D were flat. Not sure who the player was. But he was good. It wasn't the player. High F was surely flat. Even the GREAT Frost who is an amazing played a few notes that had some tuning issues.
So this is one of the reasons why I sadly changed horns.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2019-04-18 07:19)
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Author: Zacharywest158
Date: 2019-04-18 17:49
I purchased a set of Traditions in January, right before the new Tradition model was announced. I couldn’t disagree more about the claims that the instruments sound harsh at loud volumes or that they have significant tuning issues. I think they’re wonderful instruments and for the price I got them at, somewhere around $9500 for a brand new set, I thought the quality was excellent. Granted, I went to a reputable dealer and was able to play through a large selection, but just because the instruments don’t have the same tendencies as other Buffets doesn’t make them bad, just different things
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2019-04-18 22:03
Bob Bernardo- you wrote: "the upper notes above D were flat. Not sure who the player was. But he was good. It wasn't the player. High F was surely flat."
There is only one upper note higher than D that you hear in this clip. And that note is G and not F. To me this G didn't sound flat. But even if it was, this is a note which has many fingering possibilities and is very flexible in terms of intonation. So I don't understand how you can so categorically assign all the blame to the instrument?
I agree that there were some other tuning issues. But we don't know who the player is and even whether the recording was made using a Buffet Tradition clarinet.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2019-04-19 11:02
Liquorice - I must add that there probably aren't any horns in my opinion that are perfectly tuned. I also don't think that any Buffet made has harsh sounds as I've played a lot of Buffet's.
On the video with Frost he uses a different fingering for the throat A which is fine with me, as I do too with the Yamaha horns. But as you said other notes were out of tune too. I agree. I was referring to an F by the way, but if you want to call it a G I'm surely not here to argue over a note. It wasn't Marton's piece.
My major complaint is the notes going flat in the upper registers as the bands and orchestras tend to go sharp. You can buy shorter barrels of course and also buy some places like mine that offer 442 pitch mouthpieces, but that's really not the answer as Buffet still doesn't get it that we don't want horns that tune to 440 and then some notes drop down below 440 as the brass and flute player, also oboes climb to 443, if the orchestras and bands tune to 441 to 442. This is just wrong. The rest of the world tunes to 441 to 442. I've been writing about this long enough so Buffet should be getting the message. Sadly they aren't. We need the symphony pros to speak up. Off hand I can't think of a major symphony that tunes to 440 or under. These include Boston, Chicago, Philly, Los Angeles, Baltimore, New York, San Francisco, so if there are others that tune lower I don't know who they are. I'm sure there must be a few. Same in Europe. Most tune above 440.
I've played these horns and they are nice but the bores are still too big. So you can't fix then by undercutting some of the holes as this will wreck the tuning of other notes. Oh, using shorter barrels does help, but often the 12th's are no longer in tune.
I do like one of the Uebel models for tuning. They make several models but I'm not sure which model I liked best. The price was a shade over $8000 I think. If you have the cash take a look at it. I'd rather buy 2 sets of Yamaha's for the cost of 1 Uebel. It's not gonna get you into the Boston Symphony by playing on a set of these $16,000 horns.
Cheers!
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2019-04-19 11:33)
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2019-04-19 11:37
Hi Bob.
I don't want to argue about a note either. But you can't claim that the player's high F was flat when he or she didn't even play one on this clip!
If the symphony pros (myself included) thought that notes being flat above D were an issue on Buffet instruments, I'm sure Buffet would have done something about it by now. Maybe these "tuning issues" only occur with Vintage 1940 Cicero mouthpieces? ;-)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2019-04-20 14:51
I don't know what clip you are talking about but maybe they mean F in concert pitch and you mean G on the clarinet?
Re the "new" Tradition... how new is it?
I just tried a year old Tradition and it was excellent. Tone and intonation were very good. The left hand E/B and F/C keys were a little higher than usual, but I don't know if that's the design or a one-off mistake (the last Tradition I've tried before was a while ago and I don't remember).
BTW all the posts were extremely tarnished, while the plated keys had no sign of wear or tarnish. So not plating them seems to be a "great" idea (if you care about these things).
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Author: DaphnisetChloe
Date: 2019-04-21 04:58
According to their recent 2nd clarinet audition ad, Baltimore Symphony does in fact tune to A440. Seattle also tunes to A440.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2019-04-23 14:54
Steve Barta was the Principal of Baltimore for 40 plus years and recently retired. He lives near me here in California. We seem to get sushi for lunch when we get together. I brought that up abut his orchestra. 441 to 442 was his answer. They play is 2 different halls and play in the summer in an outdoor convert hall in Columbia, MD. The Merry Whether Post Palleven. I've played there and it;s really hard to play in tune, because may be dry or it could be raining and your reeds are dead.
We have been friends since the 1970's. One of his clarinet's the upper joint has been pinned 11 times.
So I don't know. If the conductor tuned to 441 to 442, depending on the 2 halls and the third summer outdoor hall. I have to go with Barta. Maybe there is a new conductor there. One of his close friends subs with both the National Symphony and the Baltimore Symphony and he said the same. If fact we were all play or actually sight reading clarinet music and comparing the Yamaha's to their Buffets.
They both really liked the horns but favored the A clarinet, the Yamaha, for its freedom and warm sound. Baltimore plays in 3 different halls. One of the halls they keep the temperature at 55 degrees to save money, So maybe this hall tunes to 440 until the temp reach 75 degrees. As you can see I've done my homework work by talking with assorted players.
So here we go again with peoples disagreements. Let's say Baltimore tunes to 414. Very flat!! Well my point is most orchestras around the world tune higher, to 442 on the average. This we should all agree in. If not pull out your $15 tuners and check.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: donald
Date: 2019-04-23 23:46
Speak for yourself Paul, when I play in the NY Phil I use a tuning fork because that acoustic makes me sharp so I need to play Yamaha.
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