 The Fingering Forum
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Author: tj
Date: 2005-02-20 16:53
I want to play with two guitarists at church but the music that we have is not written for woodwinds. We decided yesterday that I would need to transpose all of the music if I wanted to be able to play with them. The problem is, I do not have the slightest idea of how to do this. I found a transposition chart on another web site but I am wondering if it is really this easy or am I missing something? Also, how can I tell what key a song is written in? ONe of my co singers told me that one of the songs was written in C but I saw nowhere on the music where it said this. What am I missing?
Thanks for your help, TJ
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Author: Crusty
Date: 2005-02-20 21:14
Guitars are "C instruments," unlike other woodwind or brasswind instruments. So, what woodwind do you play? That will tell you what to transposed to. My guess is that you'll probably have to be an arranger for your part than just a transposer since most likely the guitar charts are not in classical notations but chord charts.
Good luck
tj wrote:
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I want to play with two guitarists at church but the music that we have is not written for woodwinds. We decided yesterday that I would need to transpose all of the music if I wanted to be able to play with them. The problem is, I do not have the slightest idea of how to do this. I found a transposition chart on another web site but I am wondering if it is really this easy or am I missing something? Also, how can I tell what key a song is written in? ONe of my co singers told me that one of the songs was written in C but I saw nowhere on the music where it said this. What am I missing? <br />
Thanks for your help, TJ
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Author: tj
Date: 2005-02-20 21:58
I play alto sax and so I will have to transpose from Eb. The idea will be that I will play the notes while the guitarists play the chords. Will this work? Thanks for your reply Crusty. And, thanks to all others who may reply. TJ
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Author: Carolyn
Date: 2005-02-21 17:17
I ran into a similar problem when I was in 5th grade and wanted to play alto in my church's band, but I couldn't understand why all the music sounded right when I played by myself, but so terrible when I played with everyone else. It didn't take long for me to realize transposing was needed.
Before you can start transposing, you have to know what key a song is in.
No flats or sharps in the key signature means the song is in the key of C.
If you have the following number of flats/sharps in the key signature, here's the corresponding key.
1 flat = F
2 flats = Bb
3 flats = Eb
4 flats = Ab
5 flats = Db
6 flats = Gb
7 flats = Cb
1 sharp = G
2 sharps = D
3 sharps = A
4 sharps = E
5 sharps = B
6 sharps = F#
7 sharps = C#
Because you're looking at guitar music, you're going to have to transpose the key (and notes) for alto sax.
I could tell you about teh whole transposing to the minor sixth thing, but I always find that more people understand the "3 half-step" approach.
Yes, transposing is quite easy once you start, so if you found a transposing chart, you should be fine, and you don't have to read further unless you REALLY want to
Along with woodwinds, I also play piano, so when I transpose it works best for me to visualize a piano keyboard in my head to help with whole-steps and half-steps.
C C# D D# E F F# G G# A A# B C
(also be aware of enharmonic notes, such as A#=Bb, D#=Eb, and so on)
Use this as a guide if you're not familiar with piano. Basically, all you have to do to transpose for an alto saxophone is pick the concert pitch (in this case, the key the guitars are playing in), and simply move 3 half steps to the left.
So if the guitars are playing in C....
moving from C to B is one half step
moving from B to A#(Bb) is one half step
and Moving from A#(Bb) to A is one half step.
So, whenever the guitars are playing in the key of C (no flats, no sharps) you will be playing in the key of A (3 sharps)
Now, all you ahve to do is take the notes of the song and continue with this process. If you see a G in the guitar music, you'd go down the 3 half steps, and find out you'd be playing an E. This can be tedious as first, but once you catch on transposition goes relatively quickly.
Be careful though...if the guitars are playing in the key of Bb (two flats, Bb and Eb) which is your key of G, make sure you take into account that every Bb and Eb in the guitar music won't have a flat next to it, because it's already in the key signature. Unless there's a natural next to a Bb or an Eb, you should treat them like flatted notes and transpose accordingly, even if there isn't a flat right next to them.
Hopefully I haven't confused you too much, I just want to give you as much information as possible since I don't know what you do/don't know about transposing. If you have any question about what I've said (or sax information in general), you can e-mail me at Tenorsax187@aol.com.
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Author: Trentus
Date: 2005-02-23 04:08
You could always just try and do it by ear. I was in a music class with about 3 guitarists, a few percussionists, and one other sax. Anyway, the guitarists just wouldn't stop playing, so we (the saxes) would just play a chromatic scale and find which notes would work and which wouldn't. Then we'd just improvise over the top of them
Anyway, you can also try this to find which notes work, and then just put them into the tune.
It might not sound easy, but I find it a lot easier than transposing.
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Author: Crusty
Date: 2005-02-23 07:21
Partially, I agree with Trentus. I recently picked up clarinet, dreaded Bb intruments as far as I'm concerned. I didn't care what "Do" or "C" meant for that instrument since I'm more interested in "off the cuff" or "drop of the hat" improvisational music rather than being "an orator" to someone else's "music." Not to mention I'm a far better guitarist than a woodwind player. Even though I do understand the historical aspects of why this "donky backward" way of education, I'd rather just play. So I forced myself to leanr scales on a Bb instrument as if I'm playing a "C" instrument. I don't have to "transpose" at all. Why don't they teach "Do" is always "C" and forget about this stuff??? I'm rather sick and tired of this "transposition" poo.
Crusty
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Author: T J
Date: 2005-02-24 18:22
I want to thank everyone who responded. It is all very helpful information and I will use all of it to work in the way that is best for me. thanks again
tj
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Author: Derek
Date: 2005-03-12 18:23
In response to Crusty, (besides disagreeing with his whole clarinet philosophy), the reason why all instruments, regardless of C don't teach "Do" as "C" because then you would need to learn different fingerings for each instrument. For example, the 3 common clarinets, Bb, A, and Eb, would all require completely different fingerings and make it very hard to switch between them. The same goes for saxophones. It's much easier to use the same fingerings and transpose than to learn different fingerings for every instrument in a family. I can't imagine the nightmare of switching between my Bb Eb and A and having to use completely different fingerings.
And also, don't knock written music because you're a guitarist, I don't see any improvised "off the cuff" music that has survived for 300+ years.
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