 The Fingering Forum
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Author: TorusTubarius
Date: 2004-10-23 04:08
I'm curious what you all think is the most important aspect of musicianship, by which I mean what you think must come first above all other things.
And for you reed players, what do you think is the most critical characteristic of any given reed. By this I mean what do you look for in a reed first and foremost?
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Author: Ryan
Date: 2004-10-23 05:47
I think one of the most important things of musicianship, is plainly being able to "feel" the music. I mean, you are able to play notes and everything, but I think you just have to be able to "feel" it. Once you achieve that, it stays with you and you can do almost anything!
-Ryan
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Author: sömeone
Date: 2004-10-24 06:58
Interest. which then brings enjoyment and excitement. and then accomplishment.
Well, come to think of it. If you want to state it seriously. I think humbleness is the most important.
Learning everything you can. Not onyl something from your own instrument or line of music.
Well i know we both are oboe players. Responsiveness and suitability is what i look for at first. Personal taste of sound? The rest is something we try to control. Because you cant always get that perfect reed right? Hehe. I guess thats the same for most reed players.
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Author: Theboy_2
Date: 2004-10-25 00:15
what is most important to me, is being able to play your music, and helping others when they have difficulties. it's no fun when someone is struggling with their music and you don't help. it's better when everyone can play it to the best of their ability. what i look for in my reed(being single reed player) i look to see if the heart of the reed is where it should be. making sure it's not to high, or off centre. also checkin to see if the reed is not to think or too thin. and after all that, i have about 2 or 3 reeds from a box of 10.
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Author: TorusTubarius
Date: 2004-10-25 14:54
Well my personal opinion, for what it's worth, is that the first and most important thing you should be aware of as a performer is <i>pitch</i>. As I have said before, if you're not playing in tune, you're not playing the right notes. Most everything else about making music is open for interpretation (i.e. articulation, tempo, tone quality, dynamics, phrasing); pitch however is not subjective. It is a real measureable quantity which must be correct or else the whole performance suffers.
I know you may have been thinking what was most important was something grandiose like "making the music sing" or "feeling your part", and those things are important. But making your music sing isn't just the result of some immediately transcendent experience that you have where you pick up your instrument, "feel" what the music should sound like, and just do it from the heart. Making the music really sing is a process that starts with the most basic fundamentals and goes on from there. And to me, the most basic of fundamentals which is the foundation for everything else is pitch.
Anyway, I'll try and keep my speeches short today.
As for reeds, I feel that of all the things a reed must do, it must, I say must <i>respond</i> before anything else. Having a reed with a pretty tone does you no good if you can't control how it speaks. And to me it seems easier to compensate for the reed having a worse tone than it is to compensate for a reed which doesn't respond.
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Author: d-oboe
Date: 2004-10-27 03:22
I'd just like to add to Torus' "speech":
As far as musicianship goes, I think the best musicians are ones who are a) capable in all technichal and physical aspects b) humble c) flexible d)concious of their sound
I don't really think there is such thing as "talent". I think the people who make great musicians are ones who allow themselves to be impressionable. They learn from everyone, and are always open to new ideas. Someone who works very hard to figure out the best solutions to a musical problem (usually instrument technique): that's a musician.
People who feel that they are the best, usually don't make a terrible effort to improve, and are difficult to work with.
As for reeds...although y'all may not believe it, your oboe tone, once the reed actually gets going, doesn't change. From reed to reed, you sound how *you* sound. If you don't have the correct air support, or adequate embouchure strength, a good reed won't help. The things that do change, though, are pitch and response. Those are the two most obvious things to any listener. Seeing as your tone really doesn't change, it makes sense to have the reed work above all things. If your reed responds and your reed has pitch, then you will be able to play in tune, with endurance.
I remember some students of mine who just refused to thin their tips down because it "made their tones too chirpy".
"Balance your back to the tip" I say...but to no avail.
What is it anyway with the youngins making such....non-vibrant reeds?
Oh Well.
D-oboe
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Author: Lola
Date: 2004-10-29 12:43
So Torus, if you were playing in Europe, would your pitch be A=440 or 442?
When you play French baroque music, do you play at A=390? That was the correct pitch then.
And if you were directing a beginning band, would you stop to make then learn every note in tune when they are still struggling with fingerings?
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Author: TorusTubarius
Date: 2004-10-30 18:14
Well, you're talking about pitch center; I guess I'm thinking more intonation. You can put the A wherever you like (though 440 is what I'm used to), but within that pitch level, you have to put all your notes where they belong first and foremost. You will sound worse if you don't. It's like I said before, tone, phrasing, dynamics, etc. are all subjective. Pitch however is not, whether you're talking about playing within an equal temperament tuning scheme or what-have-you, there is always a number value which must be adhered to to achieve the desired effect.
I wouldn't direct a beginning band because you would soon after see me listed in the obituaries with the word "suicide" somewhere in the article. But since you asked, you're talking about a different goal than I. For a beginner who still can't remember all the fingerings, the goal of "making the music sing" isn't very realistic. I'm talking about goals that a more advanced performer would set for himself, and goals that I suppose even beginners should be at least made to think about for the future.
If you think about it, fingerings are really only an incidental concern anyway; after all, singers have no fingerings, and yet their goal of "making the music sing" is the same. And I would say that just like an instrumentalist, the most fundamental aspect of their performance is pitch.
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Author: d-oboe
Date: 2004-10-31 16:35
I think the point Torus was trying to make is
-that there is a standardized pitch system, where each semitone is 100 cents apart. (In some european countries the pitch reference point is A=442, but it just shifts the whole system up a few cents, that's all)
Pitch (and subsequently intonation) is essentially what provides the clarity through which musicians can express themselves. Pitch to music, is similar to iambic pentameter in english. Simply by changing the pitch of the last syllable of a sentence, you can change its meaning between a question, statement, exclamation,etc...
In music, obviously, it is more subtle, but still extremely important.
I think as oboe players we have the right to be (damn) picky about pitch. We sit in a dingy room hacking at fickle pieces of wood for hours, to tune them just right...then we have to go play in wind ensembles and orchestras where the pitch just keeps going up,up,up...Pitch is important!
Like Torus said: pitch is not subject to interpretation. You're either in tune or you're not!
In a beginning band, accuracy and pitch are the most important aspects of study. They should be given music where the variety of intervalic relationships matches or *slightly* challenges their level of aural proficiency. In a lot of beginner situations, there is too much pressure put on "feeling" the music. This is impossible for a beginner to comprehend. If they can't push the strings down, move their fingers evenly, set their embouchure, figure out what valves to use, or how far to move their slide, no amount of "feeling" the music will correct it.
Pitch and accuracy have to be drilled into music students from day one. If they (the whole band even) can't play their notes in tune, perhaps the focus should be on a unifying of pitch, and understanding intervals. Maybe even a little home practice. (which rarely -or barely- happens at beginner levels)
d-oboe (the pitch b**ch)
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Author: Ambrosia
Date: 2004-11-22 22:08
Hahaha, death by suicide because you taught begining band. This is way off topic but i remember in middle school we were all little aholes, but since we got to high school, we all behave. I think the one of the biggest aspects of band is comradery. you have to bring eachother up or you'll get pulled down. Well, that goes for marching season at least. so yep...suicide...sry, but that was FUNNY.
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Author: Ashley Painter
Date: 2004-12-06 03:36
Im curently pissed at the Vandoren companies. I love V12s on calrinet, but they have nos uch thing for my bass. I like an even symetrical cut where the base meets exposed grain. I also like both sides of the butt of the reed to be equal. when the cut is symetrical along with the sides, the tone is much more even given the consistancy of the cut of the reed. I also like a more mottled base color because it shows that the cane had more time to mature before bieng cut.
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