 The Doublers BBoard
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Author: FrankM
Date: 2006-06-09 14:35
The double lip embouchure is an oft debated topic on the clarinet board. You folks who double: if you use the double lip on clarinet, do you also use it on Eb and bass clarinet? Saxophones?
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2006-06-10 13:55
It's been debated sort of. It's a debate that usually goes something like this: Those of us that use it thinks it works, those who don't says it doesn't work. Forget that 90% of the clarinetists on the "gods" list used it and sounded great. I've been told that both Stan getz and Paul desmond used double lip on sax. I use it on Bb, Eb clarinet, I'm trying to get used to using it on basset horn and bass clarinet. I always use it on Soprano sax and alto sax. I haven't used it on tenor.
I believe double lip is the quickest path to a great sound. But not becuase of the top lip incontact with the moutpiece. Because of the opening of the oral cavity and it does it in a way that doesn't force it open. When I do try playing the clarinet single lip, I find the inside of my mouth changing and not staying as open. Ron Reuben, clarinetist, bass clarinetist, saxophone with Philly orchestra has used doublel lip on all his instruments. I will say this, and you can check out my posts on the other list regarding this subject. The top lip, is not as important as finding the "zone" of the right amount of mouthpiece and reed in your mouth, and doing nothing to "inhibit" the reeds vibration. This is the same for Sax, Clarinet, and any reed instrument. That is the one thing I have found players with great sounds have in common. They achieve maximum reed vibration and manage to use lips and oral cavity to filter the high partials. But that's just my opinion
Tom Puwalski, former soloist with the US Army Field Band, Clarinetist with Lox&Vodka, and Author of "The Clarinetist's Guide to Klezmer"and most recently by the order of the wizard of Oz, for supreme intelligence, a Masters in Clarinet performance
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2006-06-10 21:26
Interesting topic!
When I arrived at Berklee in the 60's, after playing saxophone since I was 8 and having a number of good teachers, Joe Viola took one look at my embouchure and asked me why I used a double embouchure. I didn't know that I had. During my first year with Joe he completely revamped my playing. It was rough to undo the habits that I had learned and then relearn a new embouchure and method of breath support. But, after that period of time there was a night and day difference in my sound and playing. Joe, then, turned me away from a double embouchure on saxophone.
Fast forward to around 5 years ago. I had started to know Ralph Morgan and used his mouthpieces on clarinet and saxophone. Ralph encouraged me to take in more of the mouthpiece beak on both instruments. I found it awkard at first with a tenor mouthpiece. My embouchure slipped and more quickly wore out. One day while I was practicing I had an intuitive hunch. Simply put, I lifted my front teeth up from the beak by only a small distance and kept my top lip in exactly the same position as in using a single embouchure. That is, I did not curl the top lip. Immediately, my sound opened up big time....and my sound was not small to begin with. With this modified approach my embouchure no longer slipped in taking in more of the mouthpiece beak and my chops no longer wore out. The results were very impressive! I then called Ralph Morgan and told him about my experiment. He chuckled, said "Of course", and then gave me a detailed answer as to WHY it worked. One aspect was that it helped to open the oral cavity in a way that it didn't do as much with my traditional embouchure. I've used this modified embouchure for the past 5 years and have been extrememly happy with it on saxophone.
I tried this approach also on clarinet and did not like the results. I wasn't able to have the level of control that I have with a traditional single embouchure. But, having said that, it's important to note that I use a Morgan RM28 (1.28 mm) mouthpiece. It's more open and has a larger chamber than a more typical classical clarinet piece. The design of this mouthpiece -- in particular with its duckbill beak -- feels like a perfect match for me. I can take in a large amount of the beak (as recommended to me by Ralph Morgan) and get a large dark fat sound that I love so much. So, between me (as a player), the RM28, and the rest of my set up I'm entirely happy and did not have to make an embouchure change....other than taking in more of the mouthpiece.
Roger
Post Edited (2006-06-10 21:29)
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Author: Merlin
Date: 2006-06-11 14:43
I experimented with double lip on both clarinet and saxophone, but found it too uncomfortable. OTOH, I have no trouble at all using it on oboe and bassoon. For me, seems to help emphasize the difference in the instruments.
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Author: Ted
Date: 2006-06-15 16:44
I use double lip on all the clarinets but not on any saxophones. For me it works better on the clarinet.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-06-15 17:44
I've gotten good results (at least, I think I have) using single-lip on just about every size of clarinet and saxophone for the past thirty-some years. But I've found it doesn't work on oboe, unless I feel the need to use the reed as a toothpick. Flute is another story altogether.............
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Author: neil.clarinet
Date: 2006-06-17 21:52
Very interesting. I have always been taught the single lip way, and didn't know any other way until recently, when I saw double lipping mentioned on another forum. After experimenting with double lip, it felt so insecure having the top lip down, and the teeth were not in contact at all. It's most likely I am so used to one way and it's hard to change after so many years. We had a seminar earlier this year where a visitor talked about the chalmeau, and discussed double lip playing, and the shift to single. I am quite happy with the sound I make playing single lipped, though my instinct was the change came to allow more range in the bigger Romantic and 20th century music, that double lipped playing didn't really allow, though could give a more mellow classical sound. Is it too much to use both, play Mozart double lipped and Copland single lipped? Probably.
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