 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2011-03-22 15:29
I'm starting this thread so as not to hijack the "Why oboe?" thread, after Robin's question about so many of us having less-than-positive feelings about playing the clarinet.
It's not that I hate the clarinet, per se. In fact, I think it is a lovely instrument, with a remarkable tonal and expressive range. I just hate it for me. I didn't like anything about it, seriously. But I wanted desperately to play an instrument, and that's what I was given, so that's what I played. (This was all the way back in the mid-1950s, BTW -- a different time, with different expectations and standards.)
Part of the problem, I am sure, was the indifferent tutelage we were given at the elementary and high school level. I never heard an excellent clarinetist in person. There was no such thing as "lessons" in the milieu in which I grew up -- during my entire school career (before college), I only ever knew of ONE person who had instrumental lessons. Likewise, we did no theory more than what was required to play the notes. I have long been in awe of the British and Canadian music education system, with its "Grades" and exams and structured achievements. I would have loved to have been able to participate in something like that as a youngster. (And maybe even as an oldster -- they don't allow old folks, do they?)
So, it's not just gratuitous animosity that I feel toward the clarinet. From the gut level, it wasn't the instrument for me. Oboe is just so much more fun!
Susan
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Author: RobinDesHautbois
Date: 2011-03-22 15:59
So as not to hijack the Thread, I'll delete this stuff from the other one.....
Actually, we like to trash the clarinet a lot in this branch of the Woodwind.org, but I must confess that it really is a very worthy instrument. I only played it a very little bit in university: it feels much better under the fingers than the oboe does - but it feels wrong to me in the throat and lungs.
I heard some with a flute in French Samba (or Rumba?) and it really sounds fantastic. You can't do Gershwin's Rhapsody in Blue on an oboe even with an open ring system, the sound is just wrong. I love the clarinet in its place: Klezmer and such. Enesco's Romainan Rhapsodys are the perfect example of correct use of both Clarinet and Oboe: he puts them both out in the open and gives them exactly the right folkloric mood to suit the sounds.
No offense, we love you, dear clarinet players..... but the OBOE RULES (and Albrecht Mayer is the KING)!
=> and I repeat..... making reeds is not THAT big an ordeal!!! To me, its a joy.
Robin Tropper
M.A.Sc., B.Mus., B.Ed.
http://RobinDesHautbois.blogspot.ca/music
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Author: kimber
Date: 2011-03-22 16:12
As a long-time oboe player and new clarinet learner, I have to say that I wish had started playing clarinet years ago. Yes, it's definately quirky, but I really appreciate the fact that the family of clarinets can be a full-ranged band of itself and I love the redundant left/right hand keys to make fingering note combos easier.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-03-22 16:24
Clarinet is the only woodwind instrument I did all my grades on while at college - I wasn't playing oboe at the time and wasn't that keen on the ABRSM syllabus for sax (and was getting enough sax playing in big bands anyway) so I chose clarinet as my 1st study as the syllabus was at least music written specifically for clarinet and not Baroque flute sonatas.
Funny thing is while I do tend to have a flexible approach to sax playing (I love David Sanborn's playing) I tend to be very reserved on clarinet, going for the tight, compact orchestral sound rather than the spread 'Jazz' sound, but that's not to say I can't bend things into all manner of shapes if I have to (eg. the 'Rhapsody gliss' etc.).
What I missed while studying clarinet was my first love - Baroque music. I'm not all that keen on Classical music so I had to put up with Weber and Mozart, though there was also enough 20th Century music to balance that out.
While at school I really didn't like the clarinet at all, most likely due to the sound the students made on it, but as I took up sax (after ditching bassoon in favour of playing sax) and realised dance band players doubled on clarinet I thought I ought to learn that as well. It wasn't until I was 16 when I began studying clarinet in earnest and the college had a new lecturer who is also a very fine clarinettist.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: GoodWinds ★2017
Date: 2011-03-22 18:17
I'm taking up the clarinet again after a decades-long hiatus; I never hated it, but I was one of 30 in my middle-school band, when I switched to oboe (I was drooling just looking at the pictures on the wall...).
As a pit orchestra 'doubler', I appreciate the clarinet in many ways, and I have had the pleasure of hearing really good clarinetists in concert and working with them personally.
I appreciate the alternate fingerings too, but generally I find clarinet harder, not easier, to finger than the oboe. This has much to do I'm sure with the fact that my fingers are numb some of the time due to a disease process, and the challenge of planning fingerings ahead (or remembering them from practice) when my cognitive skills have been affected too.
But you can't substitute the sound of one for the sound of the other, and that part I really like.
And if ANYBODY out there can recommend a good clarinet mouthpiece for a 'majority' oboist, I am open to suggestions. (Low budget, though).
GoodWinds
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Author: Theyoungoboist
Date: 2011-03-22 20:52
Making reeds is a joy when your knife sharpens properly (I can't get my bur to last more that a few strokes)
http://oboeadventures.tumblr.com/
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-03-22 22:22
A good all-round mouthpiece I will recommend is a Vandoren 5RV Lyre.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: RobinDesHautbois
Date: 2011-03-22 23:57
I HAVE to find my old file on knife sharpening (on some old floppy diskette in the bottom of a box).
It drives me BONKERS when I read you guys talking about burrs!!!! A good knife using good stones (and/or leather) removes all burrs!
My test for a knife is that it has to shave the hairs off my fore-arms! This means good hard metal really well honed!
Robin Tropper
M.A.Sc., B.Mus., B.Ed.
http://RobinDesHautbois.blogspot.ca/music
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2011-03-23 02:24
GoodWinds --
Go look on the Clarinet Board, and search "mouthpieces", if you want definitive discussions about mouthpieces. Or, just take my word for it: the consensus is that the two best inexpensive, easy-to-play mouthpieces are the Fobes Debut and the Hite Premiere.
5 RV Lyre is a good standard mouthpiece for a Buffet R-13, too, although I believe the Debut and the Premiere are easier to play.
Susan
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Author: GoodWinds ★2017
Date: 2011-03-23 04:34
I didn't mean to detract from the discussion... but thanks for the recommendations!
GoodWinds
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Author: JRC
Date: 2011-03-23 13:46
1. Sounds naturally better blending with other instrument.
2. 100% wider range.
3. Infinitely (almost) more agile with its fingering system.
4. The wood does not crack as often
5. There isn't much adjustments on the instrument to peak of.
6. Simply buy reeds from any local music store and you are ready to go.
Clarinet IS a far far BETTER musical instrument than OBOE ever can be.
Only thing clarinet cannot do is to produce pure, bright red, and attention grabbing tone that stands out from the rest of the "blending sounds" and underlines the musical passage. That is oboe.
So... I can understand jealousy more than hate, especially from American style oboe players, whose goal in life seems to be to produce better blending sound; so complain and babble non-stop about reeds, instrument adjustments and care, ... Now you are saying, you hate clarinet? After trying so hard to be like clarinet?
Sorry, I could not help saying this... Sorry... So sorry...
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Author: Loliver
Date: 2011-03-23 15:03
People shouldn't go super rage against clarinets- they suffer the same problem as the violins and flutes, that everyone seems to be able to play it, but few get very good at it, unlike oboe, where people only seem to take it up if they are genuinely interested in doing it well.
I don't know if this is typical, but in my band we saw one or two oboes a year, and they were always of high quality, such as grade 7 or 8. Compared to the clarinet section, where perhaps one or two people were grade 7 or above, and the rest were around grade 4 or 5. Even so, the other first clarinet had such shrill tone in the upper registers...
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2011-03-23 15:06
Whoa, dudes!
This isn't supposed to be about ad-instrumentum attacks on the clarinet (or oboe).
As John Mack's father might have said, they are both just inanimate objects. It stands to reason that any given person might prefer one over the other, for a variety of reasons that may NOT have much to do with the instrument/its capabilities/limitations itself.
I was simply struck by how many current oboists are former clarinetists, and that a discernible number of these folks -- myself included -- are much happier as oboists than they were as clarinetists.
It has nothing at all to do with the "superiority" of one instrument or the other. It has everthing to do with the "fit" between player and instrument.
Susan
Post Edited (2011-03-23 19:15)
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Author: Loliver
Date: 2011-03-23 15:14
Its not a hatred of clarinets, its just that at primary school, alot of people were offered to play clarinet or flute, including many who had no dedication to do it, but just wanted to get out of lessons.
Those who wanted to play oboe would have to go out of their own way to try the instrument, making it much less likely that people would take it up, unless their parents played the instrument or whose parents who had an interest in classical music.
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Author: plclemo
Date: 2011-03-23 17:54
I played clarinet for 40 years prior to picking up the oboe. This was not my first experience with a double reeded instrument as I also played bassoon in high school. I love the sound of the oboe - but I don't think it would fit well in a jazz ensemble (as does the clarinet).
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Author: RobinDesHautbois
Date: 2011-03-23 18:05
Jazz oboe all over the world, right now and for a long time past!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoAtTi_u2u8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TIP8swMSi8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piwxD_LA9Ew&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r11cNvCXsNc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nb6Goh2lFgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQOZwXc_SR0
Even oboe d'amore:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9Jcv7YuTw0
When I was a student at Conservatoire de Montréal, the Jazz Sax teacher, Nick Ayoub, played both oboe and English Horn in his Jazz quartet! => he was so into making reeds that he had a gouging machine: he sold it to me when he contracted lung cancer.
Robin Tropper
M.A.Sc., B.Mus., B.Ed.
http://RobinDesHautbois.blogspot.ca/music
Post Edited (2011-03-23 18:08)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-03-23 18:25
While oboists are forever on the search for the perfect reed, clarinettists are not far behind when it comes to the perfect set-up.
Have a look on the clarinet board and you'll see a glut of topics on all manner of reeds, ligatures and mouthpieces plus aftermarket barrels and bells - some people are a bit overly obsessive having as many as ten different barrels just for the one instrument!
Always makes me laugh when someone asks what aftermarket barrel they should get for when it comes to them buying a Buffet R13 and I just feel like replying 'Just use the one that's supplied with it!'
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: colloquial42
Date: 2011-03-23 21:01
I'm not sure I'd be fond of that either :-)
I have horror stories of sitting between the piccolo and the Eb flat clarinet, neither of which could hear the other and not the least bit in tune with each other. Oy vey, talk about screech fest. And I'm a former piccoloist.
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2011-03-23 21:42
My only experience with an Eb clarinetist (other than trying to play one myself, not well) is sitting next to a supremely capable player who plays mostly with the Duke Wind Symphony. His name is Doug Brame. He is a BIG guy -- like, 6'4" or something, with big hands, and when you see him, you would immediately presume he would stumble all over the place with such a tiny instrument -- but you would be wrong. He is amazing!
Susan
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Author: justme
Date: 2011-03-23 21:48
"I have horror stories of sitting between the piccolo and the Eb flat clarinet."
I heard a horror story of someone sitting in front of a piccolo trumpet while the player is playing fff..... Ouch!
Just Me
"A critic is like a eunuch: he knows exactly how it ought to be done."
CLARINET, n.
An instrument of torture operated by a person with cotton in his ears. There are two instruments that are worse than a clarinet -- two clarinets
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-03-23 21:56
One time I had a piccolo player sat on my left I went deaf in my left ear. Made the rest of the rehearsal interesting as I couldn't tell if I was playing in tune or not.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Oboe Craig
Date: 2011-03-24 00:23
I only hate playing it. Love hearing it played well. Jazz styles especially.
In pit orchestras for musicals, I get to do the oboe, english horn, 2nd clarinet and 2nd tenor sax book.
I've taken to doing the clarinet and sax parts on a wind controller, and even the first clarinet players like that.
Main difference is, its always 'in tune'. Once they adapt to that good things happen.
And since there is always a digital piano, etc., the lack of pitch drift is good overall.
Post Edited (2011-03-24 00:23)
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Author: PrincessJ
Date: 2011-03-27 21:20
Well without reading anyone else's replies to avoid subconscious noise, I am a clarinet player, and I like the sound of Oboes better. I don't think it is a fair comparison given the large amount of differences especially in embouchure and tonal qualities, oboes are NOT even close to being simply cone-shaped clarinets, mind you !!
There is a time and place for every instrument, I prefer the clarinet for jazz, oboe for classical, etc. I'm very picky as far as that goes unless you give me an amplifier with distortion and ask me to make metal with it.
-Jenn
Circa 1940s Zebra Pan Am
1972 Noblet Paris 27
Leblanc Bliss 210
1928 Selmer Full Boehm in A
Amateur tech, amateur clarinetist, looking to learn!
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