 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: jrestes
Date: 2008-10-07 21:29
Hey guys, another question for all of you.
Is there anything you attribute to a sound that is mellow, something more suited for chamber music? Any pointers to guide me on this would be greatly appreciated!
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Author: oboedrew
Date: 2008-10-08 12:56
I'm not sure I understand your question, Joseph. Are you asking what kind of sound is best for chamber music? Or are you asking how to achieve such a sound?
Cheers,
Drew
www.oboedrew.com
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Author: jrestes
Date: 2008-10-08 20:52
How to take the "edge" out of the sound, sorry if that was poorly worded.
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Author: Dutchy
Date: 2008-10-08 22:03
What works for me--and no doubt someone with more experience than I have will be in here soon to answer more informatively--is a combination of maturing embouchure and better quality reeds. Once my embouchure was strong enough that it didn't need soft reeds anymore, and I was able to start using good-quality handmade reeds, I saw a huge improvement in my tone.
Also, focusing on "roundedness", thinking about "cushiony-ness", helps to moderate the sound, especially on that congenitally shrieking c2.
Can I ask what prompted the question? Are you getting pointed feedback from your loved ones as to your oboe tone during practice? ![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif)
I knew I was having trouble with my tone when I brought the oboe down to the living room to practice one day, and as soon as I started, the dog got up in a marked manner and went in the other room.
Everybody's a critic...
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Author: jrestes
Date: 2008-10-08 22:09
The dog hasn't complained yet!
I am been getting some feedback saying my sound is a little to edgy for blending purposes.
Funny story though . . . when I first started playing the oboe, the cats outside the house would run up to my window and meow for all their worth. Talk about your critics . . .
:)
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Author: vboboe
Date: 2008-10-09 01:17
seems to me you need to pinpoint the exact problem in more detail
<<little too edgy for blending purposes>>
... it depends what kind of 'edgy' is in your sound, did you ask your critic/s what they meant, could they be more helpful describing it other than 'edgy'?
are you playing mostly too sharp?
if you've got one of those Korg tuners you can get an inexpensive pickup sensor clip for the bell of your oboe and cable plug-in to the tuner, and it will give you what notes you're playing on your instrument, first time i tried it, oh wow, what a revelation
are you playing a lot of upper register? and have you played up there extensively (year or more) already, or is it a new learning curve all at once? Until you've been up there awhile, training your ear to it and playing it relaxed, 'to the drone' tendency is to play too sharp
or, are you just blowing too much air, that kind of edgy, giving more impact to the notes than necessary?
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Author: Dutchy
Date: 2008-10-09 02:09
By "edgy", do they mean "piercing", "shrill", "nasal", "strident", "un-mellow"?
Also, what other instruments are in your group, that you're not blending with?
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Author: jrestes
Date: 2008-10-09 03:06
Well, if anything I am probably low! (tuner obsessive one here). They claim I am more strident sounding than anything. I think I might be blowing to much air into the oboe . . . but to answer the last question a woodwind quintet.
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Author: Dutchy
Date: 2008-10-09 14:39
I've never played with a quintet, but is it possible that subconsciously you feel drowned out, so that yes, you're blowing harder in an effort to play fortissimo?
I play with our church "Orchestra", which is normally me, a Flute, a Trumpet, and a Baritone, and the combined effects of the two brass make me feel drowned out all the time. I've just had to learn that I'm not going to be able to hear myself as clearly as I can when I'm practicing at home, and that I'll just have to take it on faith that yes, I *am* playing.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-10-09 16:03
With any small ensemble playing, always listen to what the other players are doing at all times - you have your own part to play, but you have to be sympathetic to the other ensemble players to get the perfect blend.
That applies to the other players too, you all have to be listening to each other.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2008-10-09 19:46
It is certainly true that the oboe's natural tone-quality will cut through anything. There are Indian members of the oboe family that can give trumpets a run for their money - I know, I was there, and those things blow your head off.
I'm a regular quintet player, and the complaint I hear most often is that I'm playing "too loud". Now, this is NOT generally the case! I am playing my full dynamic range, from ppp through fff, but if I'm not careful I can be always "in their faces". It goes with the oboist territory.
Being in tune is no good if everyone else is sharp! (or flat). In any ensemble situation, you need to work with your colleagues to achieve a common pitch for all notes, all dynamics. This does not occur naturally, and being a commissioned officer of the intonation police does not help one whit. You must all sound in tune with each other, and this is far more important than absolute tuning levels as shown by your trusty Korg.
For a decent blend in a quintet you must first be very clear when you are playing lead (if you need to, mark these passages in your music). Now, all those OTHER times you must REALLY drop into the background. Assume every dynamic is at least one stop less than written, and consciously try and blend with the other players. At ALL times, you MUST be able to hear all your colleagues, even when you are playing lead.
If you make your own reeds, try and soften them up without sacrificing too much range. If you buy ready-made, try "dusting" lightly the sides of the heart and the blend.
There are plenty of exercises you can do with your colleagues to improve blend and intonation, but this depends on their willingness as well. Play long, slow scales in unison, at different dynamics. It is a good idea to do this in the key of the music you are about to play - this can shake out many intonation problems in a "laboratory" setting, instead of trying to figure out who was out of tune in bar 76.
Bottom line, though, is that practice makes perfect. The more you practice together, work together, and listen to each other's comments, the better you will sound as a quintet. There is no ensemble I find more rewarding.
Good luck,
J.
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Author: EaubeauHorn
Date: 2008-10-09 19:59
If you can get a very fine player to play for you on your own oboe and reed, you can find out whether it is you or your equipment. Hearing someone who is way better than you, play on your equipment, can be an eye-opener.
Then....assuming that this person does indeed get a different sound from you, you can start asking questions as to how they do that! If they don't get a different sound than you do, you can start asking them equipment questions.
EBH
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Author: vboboe
Date: 2008-10-12 20:32
... on the topic of 'ideal sound' i'm finding my upper register is 'an issue' this year, now that i'm doing first oboe parts in orchestra when he's away from time to time, so we had a chat and agreed to switch parts, he'll do OB2 from now on, he's much better at cold read & play than i am, i have to practice a lot before i'm feeling really confident in my playing
-- well, most of OB1 work is upper part of staff to 2/3 ledgers above, High D very common, High E common enough, so this is the first year i'm challenged to play *** extensively *** in high soprano range rather than middle and lower register
well, what passes OK for right dynamic levels in a 11 x 12 home practice room are *** totally lost *** (and next to useless!) in a big rehearsal hall, so there's issue #1, conductor has asked the oboe section, several times, to play 'with more confidence', 'louder', etc (methinks he's maybe going a bit deaf too, most of us are past half a century ... and the trumpet behind me keeps asking the conductor to speak louder ! )
the other issue is the quality of the high notes, even taking into consideration the tonal change 2nd 8ve key up, they're much harder to play in tune (i'm so often sharp = thin-sounding because of that)
so getting that 'ideal sound' upstairs is my playing challenge for this year :-]
any 'hot tips' for keeping that ideal sound for high register going up there with the flutes and violins as compared to middle & low playing which merges better with clarinets & horns?
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Author: cjwright
Date: 2008-10-13 06:37
Again... this concept of ideal sound is so subjective that I can't help but wonder if you'll ever find the "right answer" for you from someone else.
I'm still not sure what your ideal sound is, a whatever your ideal sound is it surely isn't the same as the other 10 people who have posted. In Laila Storch's book, it is stated that Tabuteau used to think of the upper register notes as a cloud of smoke that must go up... uP... UP!!! de Lancie followed in this tradition, with the idea that his high notes are very thin and translucent (i.e. the Easter Oratorio sinfonia). Mack always thought de Lancie's tips were too thin and therefore made his upper register too thin.
What advice I can give you is this.
If you want a more focused upper register tone:
1. narrower shapes. This will bring the upper reg notes into pitch more, but make the tone color lighter (but not necessarily SHRILL or bright!)
2. Make the angle of your knife less, so that the integration line is closer to 40-20 degrees.
3. smaller diameter staples. Staples with a smaller diameter like Rigotti, Pisoni, or Weber make the upper a TAD flatter, but can give a more focused tone (NOTE: different staples go better with different models, so depending on which oboe, one of those should work better than the others.)
If you want a rounder upper register tone:
1. Wider shapes. You must make sure your gouge will support the wider sides however. (RDG usually has thinner, Ross gouge has thicker, etc.)
2. More angle to the knife to leave the center of the tip thicker
3. Bigger diameter staples like a Chudnow, Stevens Pro, etc.
Finally, a while back I drew a picture for my blog to illustrate a shift in my reed scraping pattern. The diagram on the left would give a more focused upper register, while the diagram on the right would give a more round tone.
Blog, An Oboe In Paradise
Solo Oboe, Thailand Philharmonic Orchestra
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Author: oboedrew
Date: 2008-10-14 18:06
I'm getting into this thread kinda late, and much good advice has already been given. But I agree with Cooper that the subjectivity of this topic means it's tricky to determine which route would be best for any given individual.
Joseph, can you tell us more about the sound you'd like? Can you cite specific players whose sounds you admire and would like to emulate? Also, can you tell us more about the setup you're currently using? What kind of oboe do you play? How about your reeds? Do you make them yourself? If so, what staples, cane, gouge, and shape do you use?
We'll be better able to help you when we know more about where you're at and where you'd like to be.
Cheers,
Drew
www.oboedrew.com
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Author: jrestes
Date: 2008-10-14 23:00
I really like a effortless and singing sound. John Ferrillo is definitely my favorite oboist, by and large, but I also like Alex Klein and James Caldwell. I currently play a Loree Royale with reeds I make myself using silver Sierra Nevada staples, Rigotti cane, Ross gouge (at .60), and I use the -1n shape (which I love and don't particularly want to use a bigger shape).
One thing that has really helped out alot is backing off airwise (thanks vboboe). You knew that you could 'overblow' a reed?
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Author: oboedrew
Date: 2008-10-19 14:16
Just out of curiosity, do you mean early Klein recordings, or more recent Klein? His sound has changed so much over the years. I've been a big fan of Alex Klein at every stage of his career, but I think I like his tone best on his earlier recordings. I believe his Vivaldi disc was made on a Caldwell model Loree, whereas he used a Royale for most of his more recent stuff.
In any case, I think the best way to achieve a tone that sounds effortless is to actually produce it effortlessly! Your setup all sounds very good. If you're concerned your sound is too harsh or strident, I'd suggest working on balancing the reeds. A reed can be scraped quite thin and made to play quite freely and still sound rich and resonant, so long as the proportions of the various sections are good. I find that the two most important spots are the very tip of the tip and the transition from heart to tip. It's important to get the very corners of the tip thin enough, and to achieve the perfect balance of definition vs. gradation where the heart drops off into the tip.
A more rounded embouchure can also contribute to a more mellow tone. When the lips are "puckered," they cushion the reed on all sides and muffle the vibration a bit without closing the aperture through which the air must pass.
Cheers,
Drew
www.oboedrew.com
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Author: jrestes
Date: 2008-10-19 15:01
Thanks for the tips Drew!
I am a huge fan of Mr. Klein's Vivaldi and unaccompanied cd's. His later stuff is still superb, but I don't think I like the route he his going down.
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Author: oboedrew
Date: 2008-10-19 16:20
Joseph,
I'm right there with you. Everything Alex Klein does is impressive, and the guy has more technique than I'll ever have, but his early recordings have a sort of lightness and agility that I think are somewhat lacking in his more recent recordings. Speaking of early recordings, I've got a minidisc stashed away somewhere with a live performance of Klein and Sakakeeny doing the Villa-Lobos duo a few years before they recorded it. It was a performance at the University of Akron. I had to dig through the university library's archives to find the old reel-to-reel recording, and it was quite an adventure figuring out how to get it onto minidisc.
Cheers,
Drew
www.oboedrew.com
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