 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: JRJINSA
Date: 2007-11-20 01:51
This is the best I can describe my current reed problem -
I made a reed that was a bit flat, raucus, and blew too easily. To "fix" the problem, I clipped the tip. I then redid the tip a bit to focus the tone and the reed plays a smidge better but still isn't right and the crow has a horrid *REALLY* high squeak to it. Forming a really round emboucher makes it play a C but the crow itself is bad.
What would you do next? What causes this high squeak?
Thanks in advance for any input.
Jay
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-11-20 10:28
Could it be a leak?
Do a suction test - block the open end of the staple with your finger and suck the air out from the reed. The blades should remain closed for a minimum of five seconds and then 'pop' open.
If not, you have a leak that you should seal - it could be the binding which you can seal by coating with clear nail varnish, or the sides of the reed which can be sealed with cling film or goldbeater's skin wrapped around it, then coated with clear nail varnish.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2007-11-20 11:46
A high-pitched squeal can also mean that there is a section of the tip that is vibrating independently of the rest.
I would check the following:
1. Check that there are no bumps or valleys in the inner tip - everything back from the extreme outer-tip to the heart. If there are, they can encourage portions of the tip to vibrate independently of the rest of the reed, giving it that high squeal.
2. check that there is the semblance of a spine right up to the very tip. If not, you need to thin out the tip so that the center-line (spine) is noticeably thicker than the rest. This encourages stability and makes the tip behave as one piece, rather than independent areas.
3. Make sure you have a really smooth transition from the back of the tip into the heart, even at the sides. (I am assuming a Philly - style reed here. If you have a Mack - style reed this probably does not apply).
One more thing is worth checking. Very rarely, a tiny sliver of cane can get caught between the blades. Sometimes this is the result of an imperfect shaping. One way to expose this is to use a pipe cleaner and a nicely damp reed. You insert the pipe-cleaner into the staple until it pokes through the top. Now pull it all the way through, but move it from side to side as you go so that it slides between the sides of the blades. This should remove any debris, or at least cause a rogue fiber to poke outside the reed, from where it can be carefully plucked.
Good luck!
J.
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Author: JRJINSA
Date: 2007-11-20 12:40
Your input is really appreciated. I shall explore this further this evening when I practice. Thank you!!!
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Author: vboboe
Date: 2007-11-21 00:58
... i'm wondering if "a bit flat" was an understatement, especially since you also said raucus, blew too easily, and you get C with a very rounded embouchure, perhaps that means you're working hard to keep the blades open and bring the pitch up to C? = too much wood off
Sometimes any given piece of cane has to be tied on shorter than usual to keep the blades open after scraping (geez, you'd think the cane would give you fair warning before tying on?!) and, following hautbois' suggestion, you could reshape the tube around the mandrel to widen the throat of the tube itself, but my hunch is on "a bit flat" = too much wood off
tone-test the heart itself, with a neutral embouchure not attempting to adjust anything and blow a long steady tone, what does it pitch at?
A-440? As low as that? (joke, get it?) Heart-wood is where you want to centre C tone, so only take wood off the heart just enough to bring it down to C, no more ... if the heart's flat, sigh ... basket case
As for the squeaky crow, you might be in luck, perhaps the windows under the catch just need another tiny shaving off to loosen up the crow, or perhaps the back could be more neatly groomed to slightly widen the strips between rails & spine ro improve responsiveness there
To find out if that might work for you, roll over into the windows right under the catch and do a steady long tone-test there with 'upper register' embouchure. If it's really tight and resistant but gives you a high-pitched 'squeak', lucky you, just ease out a bit more wood to free it up to give you a high-pitched sweet tone, then try crow test at the thread again
On the other hand, with a squeak like that, after checking for too much independent tip vibration (cutting off tiniest triangles at corners of tip's edge might help in that case) also suspect a crack or split. This could be from tying on, or it could be too much pressure from a slightly dull knife resulting in a reed that's been 'flattened' ...
Isn't making reeds more of a rush than dungeons & dragons? Each time is s-o-o-o nervily different !
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Author: JRJINSA
Date: 2007-11-21 14:01
>>>Isn't making reeds more of a rush than dungeons & dragons? Each time is s-o-o-o nervily different !<<<
Making reeds does try one's patience, BUT, when you've successfully made a few reeds and really have gotten them to make beautiful sounds, you're just hyped to keep going...always striving to do that again or even better! You just can't give up and just have to keep learning...only problem is we're insane once we're good. Hehehehe.
>>>... i'm wondering if "a bit flat" was an understatement, especially since you also said raucus, blew too easily, and you get C with a very rounded embouchure, perhaps that means you're working hard to keep the blades open and bring the pitch up to C? = too much wood off<<<
Actually, the reed was a bit flat because it was too open. I had to squeeze the blades down a bit. I worked with the reed last night. The squeak problem is fixed now. What seemed to fix it in this instance was redoing the tip and making sure it was nice and smooth. It must have had some independent vibration. The reed is better now, plays nice lows, but doesn't play E''' and up. The reed crows a C#. I'm thinking I should work on the windows and heart (more learning towards the windows) to lower the crow. Logical?
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Author: vboboe
Date: 2007-11-23 00:02
<< I had to squeeze the blades down a bit>>
woe, what a difference further clarification makes !
Thinking "too much off" has now become "not enough taken off" ...
<<Forming a really round emboucher>>
There was i imagining sides of mouth brought in, nice round O mouth, squeezing sides of reed open ... oopsie daisy, that image is all in bbbb's /:-\
Your C# and no E''' suggests a bit more wood needs to come off
Yes, i'd tidy up the catch first and then make sure enough mid-bark was showing in the back between spine & rails
If it's still C# after that, the heart may need shaving down tiddly bit s'more, do #####n knife for that
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-11-23 00:49
I take it you're referring to a long W scrape.
Do many N.American players use U scrape reeds (like us lot on the other side of the pond)?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: JRJINSA
Date: 2007-11-23 12:21
Howdy Chris.
Yes, it's definitely the long W scrape. The two books I studied by were Light's "Oboe Reed Book" and Shalita's "Making Oboe Reeds." Both teach the American W scrape.
All the oboe players I know here in the States use the Long W scrape. I've never tried a reed made by the U scrape but am rather intrigued with how it works and sounds.
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Author: vboboe
Date: 2007-11-24 16:38
... hey Chris, without committing yourself to advertising any particular item, what's the 'bible' or some of the top titles / authors of U-scrape reed method instructional materials over there? I'm thinking of good illustrations, easy and methodical basic beginner's instructions and the more advanced techniques as well ... i'm enjoying my celtic tune book so much i simply must have responsive bright & clear tone, woody dark isn't right for this kind of music
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Author: borris
Date: 2007-11-24 19:40
JRJINSA wrote:
I've never tried a reed made by the U scrape but am
> rather intrigued with how it works and sounds.
Take a look here: http://www.oboistgallery.8m.net/
All European players use the U scrape (with variations).
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-11-24 20:33
"i'm enjoying my celtic tune book so much i simply must have responsive bright & clear tone, woody dark isn't right for this kind of music"
a thick, woody and dark tone can be made with U scrape reeds too, just as a clear, bright and nasal tone can be made with a long W scrape - it depends on the player's embouchure as to the sound they get, their influence and their reeds, but any sound is possible from any shape scrape - U, V or W.
Hear the difference between different European players (including British) - some play with a very bright tone while others have a thick, heavy tone - and mostly with the U scrape.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: vboboe
Date: 2007-11-24 23:29
... yeah, yeah, true, true, but ... this is purely a logistics and organisational matter, if A's are cut dark and U's are cut bright they're easily recognisable side by side in the same reed case ... yeah, it's another of my totally weird phases ... hm, it's full moon tonight, W scrape, there's a timely idea ...
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