 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-03-08 15:46
I've just finished an oboe fitted with the fully automatic octave mechanism I designed which is much simpler to adjust than the others on the market as it only has the one adjusting screw as opposed to the usual 5 or 6 that some have, and it's all working incredibly well.
So yeah, my 'first born' has made it's way into the world all fit and healthy, and I'm feeling very proud of myself - though I won't be lighting up any cigars as I don't smoke.
It will be exhibited in Frankfurt very soon, and I'd like ANY German (or other automatic) players on here to let me know what you think of this mechanism in due course.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2007-03-10 14:05)
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Author: Dutchy
Date: 2007-03-08 16:12
[does happy dance for proud father]
I trust you have it all patented so no evil meanies can steal your invention from you and drive you, Phantom-of-the-Opera-like, into the cellars of the Opera House to brood? ![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif)
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Author: Elkwoman46
Date: 2007-03-08 18:06
Congratulations and congratulations!!!! I AM SO HAPPY FOR YOU!!!
May God richly bless you and your family, and also in your endeavers!
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2007-03-08 19:07
Congratulations! Great work!
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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Author: fjozn
Date: 2007-03-09 01:08
Wow! Just wondering, will it be featured under the Howarth brand? Or your personal development?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-03-09 11:12
It's fitted to two Howarth S40c oboes at the moment, though if it's successful there's no reason why it can't be fitted to other models including the XL.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: fjozn
Date: 2007-03-09 11:40
Very interesting! Though I don't use an automatic system but it's good to know that Howarth are trying to improve their oboes!
Hoping to see some new developments for the semi-automatic too!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-03-09 12:08
I think the standard semi-automatics will remain unchanged as that's the simplest design for them, and the design that's familiar with everyone.
The two S40c oboes fitted with this new design are testbeds - I played the one I finished last night to see how well it works, and it did the job very well.
Only thing I missed was the 2nd 8ve touch (for LH finger 1) when going from C to top C - I hit the trill keys instead! But a 2nd 8ve touch can be added if wanted which will duplicate the back 8ve key's action, and make those octave jumps from C to top C easier by players used to semi-autos.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Elkwoman46
Date: 2007-03-09 13:41
Dear Chris, Hello. I've been reading here and there about semi-automatics and seeing the term also, "automatics", can you tell me basically bottomline, what that overall means? And what it is exactly? I have seen that term in the clarinet category too.
I thought I knew or had a vague feeling about it, but now I feel confused.
Thanks so much.
Are you talking about the Music-Messe "not sure at all of the spelling" that is at Frankfurt at the end of the month? I don't know all the details about this show, so even my info may be way off...???
But whatever and wherever you are displaying your creation, I am so happy for you! WOW!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-03-09 14:24
Most oboes have semi-automatic octave keys that you have to switch over when going from high G to high A by opening the upper octave key (which closes the lower octave key at the same time while your thumb is holding the back 8ve touch down), but on fully automatic octaves the changeover between the upper and lower 8ve vents occurs just by lifting LH finger 3 while your thumb is on the back octave touch. Same way as it does on saxes so it makes getting around the upper register much easier.
Fully automatic octaves are mostly used by German and East European players, and by some players that have studied in Germany - but there are German players that play on semi-automatic oboes - Albrecht Mayer plays semi-automatic oboes.
One thing you do lose with fully automatic octaves is certain harmonic fingerings for the upper register - on semi-automatic you can play high G#, A and Bb as low C#, D and Eb but with the 2nd 8ve key (for LH 1) open and these are useful in certain circumstances due to the fuller, darker tone quality and ability to be played at very low volume levels.
On clarinets, a similar system is only used on pro-level alto, bass and contra clarinets to switch over the register keys (often referred to as a 'double register key') when going from upper register D to E (by lifting RH finger 3), but not used on soprano clarinets (pitched in A, Bb, C, D or Eb).
"Are you talking about the Music-Messe "not sure at all of the spelling" that is at Frankfurt at the end of the month? I don't know all the details about this show, so even my info may be way off...???"
Yeah, this is where they'll be exhibited at (along with all the other Howarth oboes, d'amores and cors), and as I said before, I'd like to hear from anyone that has tried or examined them in detail at this exhibition to share your views.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Elkwoman46
Date: 2007-03-10 18:16
Thank you also Chris for the very, very informative message about what this all means. I really appreciate it, and have copied it for future reference, especially if I one day upgrade to another oboe.
Thanks bunches.
How's the baby?
God bless you all!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-03-10 19:02
I'm searching through the patents to see if my design infringes on any copyrights, and so far I can't see anything like it yet, having found several more complicated designs to do the same thing - though I've discovered the Loomis design is the closest to mine in two similar respects, but this design (from 1924) isn't fully automatic and isn't used by any manufacturers.
So I'm going to make inquiries about copyrighting or patenting this design.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2007-03-10 19:58
Chris P wrote:
> So I'm going to make inquiries about copyrighting or patenting
> this design.
At least in the US and other Gannt signatories: You can't copyright a desgin, only a publication (in all its forms). A design (invention) requires a patent.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-03-10 20:07
I'm still looking through the European Patent Office site to be sure - here's one example of an automatic 8ve system (though mine's much simpler in design compared to this one):
http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=DE3302682&F=0
Basically, what I've strived for is simplicitiy and reliability in my design.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Elkwoman46
Date: 2007-03-11 05:34
Very pretty instruments Chris P...and fascinating information, just not there yet to know what is what...
Beautiful!
Thanks for the interesting information.
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2007-10-06 22:10
Chris, congrats on a much simpler mechanism.
I'm not sure from the photo how your mechanism works; Does the new vertical spar rock vertically, and is the 1st octave key sprung closed, and not open as usual?
Pressing the octave key pushes the spar up, 3rd finger holds down 2nd Octave, so 1st Octave has to go up. when you raise the 3rd finger the 2nd octave can rise, and this allows the 1st octave to spring closed again. I suppose the springs must be balanced so that 2nd octave spring is weaker than 1st octave.
The only adjustment would be to balance G-fingering and 2nd octave closure.
Truly ingenious!
J.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-10-06 23:37
You've got it in a nutshell!
Only two springs in this part of the 8ve mechanism (on the right side of the picture) - the rocker carrier and lower (1st) 8ve key are both sprung closed - the upper (2nd) 8ve key isn't spring at all so when the rocker carrier is raised (by the thumb touch) the upper 8ve vent opens.
I originally designed it with the 2nd 8ve sprung open, but making a prototype showed it didn't exert enough pressure on the lower 8ve to keep it sufficiently closed, so I had the lower 8ve sprung closed.
Then when LH 3 is closed, the overlever (sprung lightly in an open position) from the main action presses onto the upper 8ve to close it (regulated by the adjusting screw), and this pressure is transmitted to the rocker which opens the lower 8ve only while the thumb is on the 8ve touch.
The rocker has nylon pins on either end (from Buffet clarinets) which fit into holes in the 8ve key arms so the rocker is permanently engaged in both 8ve keys. As the operational force is low, the nylon pins have very little risk of breaking, and also due to the low profile of this design it sits low in the case so there's minimal risk of crush damage from the case lid cushion. Stainless steel pins (made from adjusting screws with the heads rounded) can be fitted if desired.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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