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 C to half hole D blip adjustment
Author: Andy 
Date:   2018-09-10 00:50

Hi,
Would be glad of some oboe adjustment advice.

The C to C#/D blip happens due to the forked F vent key opening about 2 millimeters as the e and d keys are depressed.
Its not fingers ....have been playing for a long time.
However, the oboe has taken some long rough hot and dry weather and I have readjusted a few small keys in the top joint and middle joint. All is closing well but this is out of synch.
What test I can do to find out where the problem lies?

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 Re: C to half hole D blip adjustment
Author: Chris P 
Date:   2018-09-10 02:54

Check the F vent is closing fully along with the RH2 (middle) fingerplate - hold down RH3 to free the F vent, then close RH2 (with RH3 still being held down) and check both RH2 and the forked F vent pads are closing together. Also check both RH2 and 3 are closing the F# key as well (the small pad cup between RH1 and the RH C-D trill key).

If the F vent is staying open even by a tiny amount, then adjust it until both pads close together. The adjusting screw is usually on the F vent tail or on some Lorees, it's the one on the arch of the F vent rocker nearest the F vent key itself (not the one further up the lower joint by the F key pad cup).

Expect to be chasing your tail whilst checking the RH main action and the forked F vent to be sure it's all well regulated.

I've often seen oboes having been recently serviced by repairers more used to working on flutes or clarinets which haven't got anywhere near as complex mechanisms as oboes and they tend to overlook the closed-standing F vent mechanism, only seeing it is closed when RH3 is raised but not checking its adjustment with both RH2 and 3 held down together, so they usually pack up below E as a result.

Chris.

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 Re: C to half hole D blip adjustment
Author: Andy 
Date:   2018-09-10 11:35

Okay thanks so much for this.

Have checked out what you said:

Oboe in resting position: forked F vent has almost no pull on Rizla.

With RH 2 and 3 depressed: forked F vent has a smidgeon of a pull.

RH 2: forked F vent also a smidgeon of pull.

RH 2 and 3 close the small key next to f# very well.

So, have just now adjusted the key on the forked F vent rocker by about 1/3 of a full turn. Cannot do more than that as the E then gets stuffy. E vent getting a little less closure.

Blip still there, forked F vent opening still quite a lot from c to c#/d.

I'd seriously appreciate if you could possibly advise me on adjustments to be adjusted as knock on effect?

A

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 Re: C to half hole D blip adjustment
Author: Andy 
Date:   2018-09-10 11:38

I do have the Sawicki book.
Do I readjust according to some of that process again?

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 Re: C to half hole D blip adjustment
Author: Chris P 
Date:   2018-09-10 13:27

I'm concerned why the F vent is remaining open without any RH fingerplates held down as that shouldn't be the case - it'll also make your conservatoire Bb unstable with the F vent remaining open.

What make/model oboe have you got?

And can you post a photo of the forked F vent and I'll see if I can work something out.

Chris.

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 Re: C to half hole D blip adjustment
Author: Andy 
Date:   2018-09-10 15:29

Hi

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 Re: C to half hole D blip adjustment
Author: Andy 
Date:   2018-09-10 15:38

Hi,

did the two photo's post?

I have an Enigma, fettled by Yanko Petrov.

The screw just to the left of the F key hole is very far screwed in. Might that have something to do with it?

A

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 Re: C to half hole D blip adjustment
Author: Andy 
Date:   2018-09-10 15:50

Conservatoire.
B flat stable. Haven't noticed anything unusual.

(Seems like photo's didn't post ...prev post just says hi!)
Andy

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 Re: C to half hole D blip adjustment
Author: Chris P 
Date:   2018-09-10 16:46
Attachment:  P8100001.JPG (498k)

I hate it when that happens - just checking it to see if this photo posts.

Chris.

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 Re: C to half hole D blip adjustment
Author: Andy 
Date:   2018-09-10 17:13

Yes got that attachment.
Will try posting my 2 photos again.

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 Re: C to half hole D blip adjustment
Author: Andy 
Date:   2018-09-10 17:22

Herewith, hopefully:

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 Re: C to half hole D blip adjustment
Author: Andy 
Date:   2018-09-10 17:31
Attachment:  IMG_20180910_153032.jpg (1231k)

Jpeg too big. Trying again..

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 Re: C to half hole D blip adjustment
Author: Chris P 
Date:   2018-09-10 17:48

Good - that works.

I've numbered the adjusting screws:

1 - F#-RH2 adjustment
2 - F#-RH3 adjustment
3 - RH3 height adjustment
4 - RH2-forked F vent adjustment
5 - low C key-RH2 adjustment

Start by getting the RH2 and 3 closing the F# key with the same pressure using screws 1 and 2

Adjust screw 3 so there's no lost motion between RH2 and 3 and the F# key - if there's lost motion between RH2 and the F# key, back screw 3 out. If there's lost motion between RH3 and the F# key, turn screw 3 clockwise until it's gone. You may have to come back to this screw (3) later on.

Operating RH3 should make the forked F vent open and close.

If not, the spring tensions could be wrong (RH3 spring too weak, F vent spring too strong) or the F vent rod screws could be gummed up or rusty or there are burrs on the ends of the key barrels, the rocker and F vent key barrels could be tight between the pillars or the tip of the F vent spring could be catching in the wood.

Also check the overlever for the split D#-E trill mechanism is moving freely - it should be loose on the feather key steel and only comes into play when you use the LH Eb key.

If everything is working well, hold down RH3 and open and close RH2 to see how the forked F vent moves. If it's opening and closing with RH2, then check its closure along with RH2 and so both pads close together and adjust screw 4 so both RH2 and forked F vent pads close together.

Now check your altissimo C#, D and Eb and adjust screw 5 (on the low C touchpiece arm) until they speak cleanly. Then check for any lost motion between RH2 and 3 and the F# key and adjust screw 3 to put that right. If the RH2 fingerplate has a stopper cork on its foot (the one under screw 4) then you shouldn't need to make any adjustments once you've set the opening of the mid fingerplate with the low C key.

Chris.

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 Re: C to half hole D blip adjustment
Author: Chris P 
Date:   2018-09-10 17:53

Got called away so didn't get to post that in time.

Your oboe has two adjusters on the low C key - one of them either closes the forked F vent (like the ones on cors do) or is a 'Philadelphia D' which lowers or completely closes the RH3 bush to tune altissimo D.

Check to see what closing the low C key does as that could have an effect on the forked F vent.

Chris.

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 Re: C to half hole D blip adjustment
Author: Andy 
Date:   2018-09-11 00:22

Hi Chris,

Went through the adjustments as per your prev post. No change in forked F vent behavior.

The looked at the C key's two screws. I'm pretty sure the extra screw on the left of the C key is connected to high D. The screw was about 2 full turns away from making a connection to the disc underneath it. Have made it connect.
The E key and f# next to it need to be readjusted: when low C key is pressed E and f# don't go fully down. Will look at it tomorrow morning.

Andy

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 Re: C to half hole D blip adjustment
Author: Chris P 
Date:   2018-09-11 02:12

I would say bring it over to me and I could probably have it sorted out within an hour, but you're probably miles away from me (I'm in West Sussex).

Chris.

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 Re: C to half hole D blip adjustment
Author: Andy 
Date:   2018-09-11 10:07

I'm certain you could ☺️... I'll let you know what happens

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 Re: C to half hole D blip adjustment
Author: oboeyogi 
Date:   2018-09-12 10:26

Hi Andy great post, and thanks Chris who wrote

"Adjust screw 3 so there's no lost motion between RH2 and 3 and the F# key - if there's lost motion between RH2 and the F# key, back screw 3 out. If there's lost motion between RH3 and the F# key, turn screw 3 clockwise until it's gone. You may have to come back to this screw."

Questions to Chris
What do you mean lost on motion. My guess = no movement or play when slowly pressing down RH2 or RH3 to movement on F# key?

I have a old M2 M0120 and have some pitch problems mainly High E in the staff being sharp and the next note up F being flat.

Can you use the Screw 3 to lower the pitch on the E (lowering the D pad). But if I go too far I get lost of motion of the RH2 to F#.

If use the C# pad adjustment screw I can adjust it that in effect lowers the C key which Via low C key-RH2 adjustment can low the RH2 thus remove loss of motion play on the RH2 to F#?

The rest of the oboe is well adjusted in respect to Screws 1,2,4,5.

And do you know any ways to rising the pitch of the F at the same time being both forked or standard F?

Thanks Nicholas

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 Re: C to half hole D blip adjustment
Author: Chris P 
Date:   2018-09-27 19:42

oboeyogi wrote:

"What do you mean lost on motion. My guess = no movement or play when slowly pressing down RH2 or RH3 to movement on F# key?"

Lost motion/double action means there being a small amount of free play between one key moving and then making contact with another, so you'll feel that slight delay which is either intentional or undesirable depending on the instrument or situation. On some instruments (Boehm system flutes) there should be no lost motion in the mechanism at all, but on other instruments (clarinets, bassoons, saxes and oboes) there has to be lost motion in certain places (clarinets with the least and oboes with the most) to ensure pads will be allowed to close where they're linked with other keys as eliminating lost motion can cause some pads to remain open.



"I have a old M2 M0120 and have some pitch problems mainly High E in the staff being sharp and the next note up F being flat.

Can you use the Screw 3 to lower the pitch on the E (lowering the D pad). But if I go too far I get lost of motion of the RH2 to F#.

If use the C# pad adjustment screw I can adjust it that in effect lowers the C key which Via low C key-RH2 adjustment can low the RH2 thus remove loss of motion play on the RH2 to F#?

The rest of the oboe is well adjusted in respect to Screws 1,2,4,5.

And do you know any ways to rising the pitch of the F at the same time being both forked or standard F?"

The reason I haven't replied sooner is because I don't want to suggest you do anything if there are some intonation issues as while some things can be remedied by adjusting the ventings, other things will need looking at in greater detail by someone who knows about voicing and tuning work and can diagnose and put right these things. If your oboe is all set up well and with the correct ventings and you're experiencing some notes being sharp or flat in one register and not another, then you need to take it to someone with plenty of experience to address these things as it can involve reducing, enlarging, undercutting and tapering of toneholes which is a black art. And sometimes it can be cured with a different reed, so best not to do anything if things are improved with a different reed. I had someone bring an oboe to me because of a wild keyed F fingering. That was resolved by closing down the F key, but then a week or so later they had problems with the keyed F fingering being stuffy when they were using a different reed.

Chris.

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