 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: KevinB
Date: 2011-07-07 17:29
Hi,
I wonder if you fine folks wouldn't mind helping me solve a hugely irritating problem that has just cropped up in the last few weeks when playing low E and F (but not forked F) where these notes will, seemingly at random, play an octave up.
e.g. if I play a simple descending scale from C5 to C4 I'll get C5, B4, A4, G4, F5 or F4, E5 or E4, D4, C4. with the F5 and E5 sounding once in the scale, then next time I'll get the correct F4 and E4, then the next two times an F5 and E5 again.
There appears to be no pattern to it and it happens with all of my reeds, and of course, it appears right at the time when almost every piece we're playing at the moment is littered with these notes.
Any bright ideas come to mind?
(If it's relevant the oboe in question is a Howarth S20C with an added thumbplate.)
Thanks!
Kevin.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-07-07 17:33
Are you using enough breath support? These notes (especially the E) will tend to go up the 8ve if there's not enough support.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-07-07 17:34
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2011-07-07 17:35)
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2011-07-07 17:50
Especially since the phenomenon is intermittment, I would suggest the following (all related to the small vent below the F# key):
1) There may be an adjustment imbalance in the little vent right below the F# key vis-a-vis the E and D keys below it, so that the vent is not closing adequately.
If you know how to adjust your oboe, I would try that first (or find someone who knows how to adjust who could give that a try).
2) There could also be a small leak or incomplete pad closure on that vent irrespective of adjustment issues. This flaw would give the same effect as putting on the octave key.
3) There may be debris of one sort or another in the tone hole, or on the edge of the tone hole, that is creating the same effect.
Susan
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Author: KevinB
Date: 2011-07-07 17:57
Thanks for the quick reply
I believe my breath support is good, and in fact it seems that increasing the support makes the problem happen more often, and the F is worse than the E.
It's odd, and at the moment is giving me a bit of a confidence problem.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-07-07 17:59
How closed up are your reeds?
Are the notes below E alright or are they unstable?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: KevinB
Date: 2011-07-07 18:09
ohsuzan - I'm still wary of touching the adjustment screws, but will certainly try to give the tone holes a clean somehow. I'd ask my teacher but she's gone on a cruise! I do have a local woodwind repair shop I might try if all else fails.
ChrisP - reeds are moderately closed up but still have a respectable opening. D4 and below sound correctly all the time, no variation unless I massively over-lip them.
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2011-07-07 19:38
often, problems can be the result of poor adjustment on the top-joint. Your description has the classic feel of an instrument that is out of adjustment.
Oboes are very prone to this. Nearly all oboe adjustments are tiny pointy screws pressing into a thin cork pad - very unreliable, and prone to change as the cork ages or the screws slip.
If you don't know how to regulate an oboe, now is the time to learn. there are resources online or you can buy one of the recommended books (Sawiki or McFarlane, I think?)
Google for Brian Seaton's free Oboe Adjustment Guide.
Do you know how to do a vacuum check? On each joint?
Do you know how to use cigarette paper as feelers under the keys?
Also - please check that your octave keys are descending fully - sometimes when the corks are a bit worn they can "almost" close but not quite, especially if you release the octave key slowly.
If I were to hazard a guess, I would suspect one of the little keys between your LH fingers, or the F#-G# connection being a touch too tight.
J.
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Author: jeremyreeds
Date: 2011-07-07 22:47
Kevin,
I think that the c-d trill is opening either because you are inadvertantly touching the trill key with your middle right hand finger (RH2), or there is an adjustment issue which causes this trill key to be activated with a very slight touch (ie: a swollen cork), or a stuck trill key due to an expansion of the metal because of the tempereature. For whatever reason, I have the impression that the c-d trill is being activated.
Regards
Jeremias
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2011-07-07 22:56
The other "usual suspect" would be the screw on the little arm that projects up from the lower joint onto the upper joint. It is not particularly sensitive, but if it is wrong, it can mess up the lower joint, and it DOES go out of adjustment (on my oboes, anyway) when the little cork pad on the key it touches starts to wear.
Seaton, Sawicki, and McFarland are all adjusting methods that I have used. The Seaton has the advantage of being available free online here: http://www.oboehouse.com/resources-adjustment-guide.html. Scroll to the bottom and click the download.
But my all-time favorite guide (perhaps because it is the most completely idiot-proof guide I have ever seen) is the one by Bruce McCall http://webreeds.com/wrstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=68_69&products_id=591.
I don't know what I would do if I had not learned to adjust my own oboe. It would spend more time in the shop than in my hands if that were the case! So, I agree, it is well worth your while to get familiar and comfortable with all those little screws and what they do.
Susan
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Author: KevinB
Date: 2011-07-08 05:58
Thank you all for your suggestions; I think I shall take the plunge and learn how to make adjustments.
Wish me luck
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Author: Jeltsin
Date: 2011-07-08 06:03
I had a similar problem, and in my case it was the third octave key. I found out it when I closed it completly, and then the problem disappered. Now I have adjusted my oboe and opened the third octave key again.
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Author: WoodwindOz
Date: 2011-07-08 06:50
It's probably an adjustment issue, but it may be worth checking spring tension on any keys that are meant to be closed, such as trill keys. I mention this because my clarinet has developed a similar issue, and I thought it was a pad not sealing, but it turned out that the key next to it had such light spring tension, the slightest brush opened that key as well. Just a thought.
Good luck with the adjustments!
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Author: Jeltsin
Date: 2011-07-08 08:25
Exactly, it was the spring tension that was the problem with my third octave key.
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2011-07-08 09:15
The other thing the books will tell you is how to clean and oil your keywork. You have NO idea how much of a difference this will make to your instrument! All of a sudden your oboe is light and responsive.
Get the book and learn how to do this. You only need to clean and and oil about twice a year IMHO unless you are a really heavy player, but the results are really worthwhile.
Equipment you will need:
a SUPERB screwdriver
a spring hook
cigarette paper (cut into narrow strips) (and glued to cocktail sticks, if you want to be REALLY cool)
a desk where the cat / the kids won't play
pipe-cleaners
key oil / auto-transmission / power-steering fluid (yes, this works too)
a couple of quiet hours, with Bach playing in the background
Oh, last thing;
The phone-number of an oboe technician who can help in case you get completely stuck
:) enjoy!
J.
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Author: KevinB
Date: 2011-07-08 16:51
Thank you to everyone who has responded, I really do appreciate it.
The prize (only of an extra thank-you I'm afraid) goes to Jeremias. My lazy fingers were the culprit and as soon as I paid attention to RH2 a little more than the problem went away. RH2 was just straying a millimetre too far north and was just touching the C/D trill and now I know what it was, I can make the problem happen at will. More importantly, I can make it go away at will!
Thanks Jeremias
I think I also need to follow the good advice on learning to oil/clean/adjust my instrument though, so I now have a project for summer.
Kevin.
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Author: jeremyreeds
Date: 2011-07-09 03:53
Kevin, you are welcome.
Indeed maintainance, in every respect, is very important. If the problem persists, a little "adjustment" that you could make, an ergonomic adjustment or "customization" of your oboe, would be to raise the (heigth of the) E key by about 1 mm. Normally a big job not worth the cost but that could be made very economically by glueing (with contact cement) a 1mm thick piece of cork of about the same circunference (diameter) as the E key (plateau) to which a little hole has been cut in the center (of a little bigger diameter than the venting hole in the E key). This would raise your right hand middle finger (RH2) enough to clear the c-d trill key (touch), avoiding the problem that you had described before. The advantage of cork and contact cement is (1) you can easily remove it when you want to sell your instrument, (2) you can easily change it for a thinner or thicker one if needed. Disadvantage: cosmetics.
In any case I am glad that you found the source of the problem and having been of help. Once again, you are welcome.
Jeremias
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Author: Dutchy
Date: 2011-07-09 14:43
I can vouch for the fact that working my way through Sawicki turned out to be not as intimidating as I had expected, so if a 56-year-old not particularly mechanically minded housewife and grandmother can do it, so can anyone.
The trick is to go slow, set aside an hour for it (you can't do it in a hurry, that's for sure), and definitely make sure the cat isn't in the room "helping". :D
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-07-09 15:13
If the C-D trill key is too close to RH2, it can always be bent out the way.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ian White
Date: 2011-07-13 08:44
Only tweak adjusting screws a fraction of a turn at a time - with cork pads 1/20 of a turn can sometimes be too much.
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