 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: WoodwindOz
Date: 2011-04-24 14:10
I do several gigs a year (maybe three or four) which are outdoors. Most are in summer, but occasionally the temperature drops more than expected.
Every time a gig comes up, I wish I had done something about an outdoor gig oboe. Tomorrow (ANZAC Day dawn service) I will be taking the Marigaux, but I will keep a plastic Yamaha close in case I sense the temperature is just too dicey.
At any rate, I would like to do something about a backup oboe at some point. I know my budget is limited (and as a soon-to-be student again, it will be even more so!), which will affect my choice considerably. It would have to be under US$1000, preferably closer to the $500 mark. (I know I'm pushing it!) I would love a Fox 330 or 333, but I haven't seen a used one under $1600 for a long time, which for 3 or 4 times a year doesn't seem worth it.
So I guess my options are: wait until an unbelieveable deal on a Fox comes up, alter the Yamaha (it is a 211, and I can't live without the left F or low Bb in band) or invest in something more like a Selmer (I may have the model wrong) 102, which I have seen for around the $600 mark.
I know the Selmer gets a bad wrap, but I am keeping things in perspective here! This is for only a couple of times a year, in an amateur community band at gigs where no one listens to us!
Thoughts or more suggestions welcome! I would love to hear what others do as well.
Rachel
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-04-24 15:56
I've got a Selmer 104 as my outdoor/travel/backup oboe and while it may be crude, it's not a bad instrument at all. It's largely based on a Loree but I've done several alerations to bring it up to the same spec as my Howarth S5.
So from top joint to bell, the alterations are as follows:
- Reamed top and lower joints with a Howarth XL reamer
- added a 3rd 8ve key with adjusting screw
- added a new 1st 8ve touchpiece
- added a thumbplate to make it dual system
- added a new key tail and adjusting screw to LH1 fingerplate
- added a tab to RH1 fingerplate
- added a hoop for the feather keys
- added an adjusting screw to the D#/E linkage arm
- built up the F key touchpiece to make it higher
- tidied up the split D#/E ring
- added a low B-C link with adjusting screw
- added a low Bb bell vent
Plus a full overhaul with cork pads used almost throughout apart from the lowest two pads and the bell vent which are in white leather.
I posted some photos to Steve Sklar who put them on his site - scroll down to near the bottom of the page: http://www.clarinetperfection.com/clAltKeywork.htm
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Oboe Craig
Date: 2011-04-24 18:26
Holy smokes Chris....
That is amazing. Plus for fun, send yourself a bill and see how much that cheap oboe really cost you...:)
![[toast]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley15.gif)
Happy Easter.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-04-24 19:27
I dread to think!
The oboe cost me £450 off eBay, though the extra keywork plus the full overhaul is most likely to be around the cost of a new one of the same model if I added it all up (although a new one of the same model won't have all the extras). I might itemise it to see what the real cost would've been if I had it done by someone else - and just be glad I can do the work myself!
But it is handy to have a plastic back-up instrument where you wouldn't want to risk any harm to a wooden one - such as playing in cold churches or cathedrals, going abroad to cold, wet, dry or humid climates, playing outdoors or on bandstands in the evening when it's getting chilly, playing on the lawn at garden parties in the blazing sun, playing in quintets in draughty hallways, etc.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Oboe Craig
Date: 2011-04-24 19:48
This might be a little off-topic, but for a couple reasons, extreme temps included, I have a midi-wind controller and a couple of synthesizers designed for it.
The flutes, clarinet and saxes I can use in pit orchestras an no one knows the difference until they actually look at me or if I get cute and tease some pretty cello player by selecting a cello sound... busted!
Oboe and english horn are fairly lame, although responsive and in tune at least.
It requires a small amp, and the base unit plus synth cost about $750 over 17 years ago.
Mine is Yamaha gear, but other 'wind controllers' exist at around $1000 new.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-04-24 23:30
The problem with ewis is you can't keep right hand fingers down when going over the 'break'. I tried a Yamaha WX7 years ago and didn't like the way I had to tongue inside the mouthpiece (between the tip rail and the reed) instead of on the underside of the reed and if I put any RH fingers down in preparation for interval leaps it did odd things.
Maybe things have progressed since the '80s with electronics, but they're no good in a power cut!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: heckelmaniac
Date: 2011-04-26 07:42
I usually recommend that ANY Linton oboe made in the US be avoided like the plague. However, the Linton model ZRL (this is also the Armstrong
model 5030) in plastic or wood, has ALL the professional key-work, except 3rd octave key. The ZRL plays well- usually well voiced, good scale, good response, good projection. The engineering of the keywork is not stellar, though it is for sure OK, fairly durable [not too soft like Larilee], and it is ergonomically comfortable.
The plastic ZRL is somewhat inclined to be somewhat brighter in timbre than say a recent Loree, though for sure not overly bright. The [scarce] wood ZRL
does have elements of a darker sound. Usually, in first class condition
(i.e., overhauled by a meticulous oboe repair specialist) a plastic ZRL should be less than $1500, a wood version less than $1700.
Oboes.us
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-04-26 12:31
If you do happen across a Linton cor anglais, chances are it may possibly be a Malerne stencil so do have a good look at it. I missed out on an all plastic (and fully loaded) Linton cor on eBay which I regret not upping my limit on as that would've got me a decent back-up cor so I could've had a set of plastic instruments.
The only other Linton all plastic cor I saw listed after that (and the only one since) was a really basic model - non-articulated G# and C#, no Ab-Bb trill and possibly just the LH 3rd finger C-D trill as well.
I doubt anyone's made a plastic d'amore, although I could be wrong.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: WoodwindOz
Date: 2011-04-26 15:32
There is a Selmer Signet Soloist model 120 on that auction site at the moment which is full conservatory and plastic from a seller I have purchased from before. Anyone know much about these? I had heard (but never experienced) that the old Signet range was slightly better than the standard Selmer range, is this true?
I personally think its a little expensive ($999) for an older oboe and my preferences, but I will keep an eye on it.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-04-26 16:33
The Signet Soloist 120 in question appears to be exactly the same instrument as my Signet Soloist 104 (before I added all the extra gadgets to it) so it shouldn't be a bad instrument at all. Seems it's had a replacement bell at some point as Selmer 120 oboes don't have the LH F or articulated C# (just dug out the brochure to check).
The bells are exactly the same on all the low Bb models (both wood and plastic), only the logo, model number below that (if stamped on) and serial number stamped on the back will be different. I fancy getting a bell with either the Bundy or a B&H '78' logo for mine just to cause a stir. That'll guarantee no-one'll want to nick it!
The plastic Selmer USA oboes are much better than their wooden counterparts (1292, 122F, 121 and 101) for the fact the joints won't warp on them. All the wooden Selmer USA oboes I've seen were banana-shaped!
The plastic ones are (starting from the most basic to full Gillet conservatoire):
1492 - basic conservatoire to low B
123F - to low Bb with Ab-Bb trill and forked F vent
120 - as above plus side G#-A trill, banana key and D#-E trill
104 - as above plus LH F and articulated C#
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2011-04-26 16:44)
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Author: Wufus
Date: 2011-04-26 19:06
Chris,
I have a friend who has a Loree plastic Oboe d'Amore from the early '80's. Believe it or not he bought a matching set wood and plastic at the same time. I was interesting how the wooden one "opened up" with time and the plastic remained the same. After 5 years or so they were not as matched anymore.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-04-26 20:59
I did wonder if Loree had done just after posting that - although they probably made only a couple at the most. There's a handful of plastic Loree oboes doing the rounds - one of them belongs to a reasonably local player.
The problem with the plastic they used for their instruments is it wasn't UV treated so develops a grey/white powdery bloom like plums or the seatbelt hoops in cars with exposure to air and light, but it can be rubbed or buffed off.
The other problem with plastic instruments is there's a higher risk of pillars stripping the threads in the joints as they're fitted or removed. What's more surprising is plastic costs more than grenadilla (in terms of equivalent volume), so they either broke even or made them at a loss.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: GoodWinds ★2017
Date: 2011-04-26 23:56
I once tried one of these and thought it quite good, but I wasn't sure it would 'hold up' over time.
GoodWinds
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Author: WoodwindOz
Date: 2011-04-27 01:56
Chris, I thought the same thing about the 120 model, until I saw that the bell said: Mod 120 FC, so I figured the FC stood for Full Conservatory. It looks older, perhaps the specs have changed over the years?
Has anyone ever had any luck (I know the chances are slim!) putting a top joint of another brand on their wooden bottom joint? I only mention this because it's the bottom joint keywork I am mostly interested in retaining.
Peter, I will also now keep an eye out for that particular Linton. Its certainly not a brand I've even seen in the flesh, so I figured I'd avoid completely at first.
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2011-04-27 02:16
My VERY first oboe was a stripped-down plastic Linton that actually had little bubbles in the exterior plastic -- as if it had been exposed to some sort of measles or something. But it played amazingly well. No problems, really, except that it was missing all the good stuff like LHF and Bb and trills and articulated notes. But for something like $375, it was a steal. I still have the Pro-Tec case that came with it.
Susan
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-04-27 13:15
Just had a look and saw the 'FC' on the bell just after the model number, so it is the predecessor of the 104. The Selmer USA oboe/bassoon brochure I've got is from the mid '80s so I can only assume this one is either late '70s to early '80s.
I do think the price is a bit steep unless it's had a complete overhaul.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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