 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: heckelmaniac
Date: 2011-03-11 17:48
Please be advised that a Huller English horn is now at auction on Ebay.
I purchased this EH when last listed on Ebay a few months, fortunately with right of return. This EH has the worst crack I have even seen in an EH, so bad that in fact inside the bore the wood is "side slipped" radically. This EH is beyond saving- wall decoration, or perhaps key parts. BE WARNED. The auction description,
"has issues," wins the "understatement of the month" contest.
Truly,
Peter
Oboes.us
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-03-11 19:08
I was expecting to hear something about the Chinese cors listed on there (if they do actually exist) - but will keep an eye out for this one.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-03-11 19:11
Attachment: ChineseCorAnglais.jpg (38k)
Photo of the alleged Chinese cor which may or may not exist.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: kimber
Date: 2011-03-11 19:18
Sadly, Chris, there are 8 bids on the current Chinese EH...and Peter, the Huller EH has 9 bids (with no returnability.)
That's why this forum is such a good thing to have!
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Author: GoodWinds ★2017
Date: 2011-03-11 23:50
I took a risk to buy two used recorders from That Site and lucked out.
But I would generally avoid the more complex instruments because "you never know". Thanks for the warning: I hope it's heeded.
GoodWinds
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Author: plclemo
Date: 2011-03-12 02:38
My husband bought my oboe on e-bay last summer. When it arrived. we took it immediately to the instrument repair shop for inspection. It came back from there as being in near-perfect condition. It just needed a new cork. I guess you just have to take your chances and make sure there is a return-policy in effect.
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Author: heckelmaniac
Date: 2011-03-12 06:32
I have purchased at least two oboes on Ebay that were described as being in "excellent condition," only to discover that the upper joint bores had been completely destroyed by someone attempting to remove a stuck swab with an industrial drill motor with twist drill. On one of the oboes, the drill even took out the bottom of the reed receiver. I have also had oboes with major gouges and grooves in the bore made by metal hooks sent in to try to remove stuck swabs. Often the slightest gouge, groove, divot, scrape, roughness (or even a large knot having broken out) in the bore of the upper joint can ruin the playing characteristics of an oboe. The only fix (IF the bore is perfectly straight, AND the drill can be centered) is to have the reed receiver removed, bore drilled/reamed out, a sleeve installed, bore re-drilled and re-reamed, tone holes drilled, and undercut. Not an easy task, and expensive. Only about three or four oboe specialists in North America can accomplish this repair. The Huller English horn on Ebay can not even be saved with such a procedure, as the bore is in fact oval shaped as a result of the extreme side slipping of the crack inside.
In the third photograph, just above the first octave vent, you will see a dark patch in the shape resembling a large English horn plaque. This is the site of a massive double fissure. The main crack runs almost the entire length of the upper joint, with secondary companion cracks in abundance. Yikes!
Oboes.us
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-03-12 07:23
Have you contacted the seller to inform them and prospective buyers?
The description reads:
"Used English Horn. Purchased this horn for my son, an Obeo player. It plays but has issues. My son tells me he cannot play a b-flat. There is also a repaired crack in the first section. Brand is G.H. Hiller made in Germany. Instrument is being sold AS-IS No Reserve."
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-03-12 11:41
"The Huller English horn on Ebay can not even be saved with such a procedure, as the bore is in fact oval shaped as a result of the extreme side slipping of the crack inside."
Makes you wonder if it's been crushed at some point. I know bores will go oval, but for an oblique crack to run the length sounds like the result of some kind of trauma.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: heckelmaniac
Date: 2011-03-12 15:30
When I had this Huller instrument home for trial, I sent a detailed
assessment of the damage to the seller. The seller has been fully apprised of how compromised the upper joint of this EH is. The auction description does not
even slightly reflect the magnitude of the damage. That even a few notes can be played on this instrument is near miraculous.
Not sure how such massive damage could have occurred.
Trauma such as crushing perhaps. or use as a club or bat. In any case, I surmise that this was not at all good piece of wood to begin with...
Oboes.us
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2011-03-12 16:23
Is it possible to contact Ebay about the false specs on the instrument?
Mark
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Author: heckelmaniac
Date: 2011-03-12 16:37
My experience is that, unless a listing is obviously a fake listing, such as the infamous "Chinese Heckelphone," or "Chinese Contrabassoon," it is best to leave the seller to his or her own Karma, and for the buyer to deal with Ebay after the fact ("not as described"). I would advise not becoming involved in advance.
An added thought is that I wish a requirement for listing any musical instrument on Ebay would be that a clear photograph showing the serial number would be included, or, if a photograph of the serial number is not possible, then at the very least an unequivocal statement of the full, complete serial number. I am amazed that Ebay did not institute such a requirement years ago.
Oboes.us
Post Edited (2011-03-13 07:25)
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Author: GoodWinds ★2017
Date: 2011-03-12 17:54
Many of us MAY have wanted to take a baseball bat to our instrument, but to even try to imagine someone actually doing it.... shudder.
GoodWinds
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Author: Jaysne
Date: 2011-03-12 19:23
"The description reads:
'Used English Horn. Purchased this horn for my son, an Obeo player. It plays but has issues. My son tells me he cannot play a b-flat. There is also a repaired crack in the first section. Brand is G.H. Hiller made in Germany. Instrument is being sold AS-IS No Reserve.'
Chris."
Sounds to me from Chris' message that the seller knows the problems with the horn. "Issues" is the modern, P. C. term for "problems." Unless I were a repairman, I would stay away from this horn. Even then, I would only buy it for parts.
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Author: alanporter
Date: 2011-03-13 21:00
So far, 23 bids from 5 bidders, latest $800.
I have just sent a message to the seller asking for a photo down the bore of the upper joint. Interesting to speculate whether he will respond.
tiaroa@shaw.ca
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Author: heckelmaniac
Date: 2011-03-14 07:44
I would be astonished if the seller were to send you photographs.
If he were send photographs, they likely would not reveal the main (side slipped) crack. It is truly a horrific crack.
Oboes.us
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Author: alanporter
Date: 2011-03-18 04:37
Can you believe it !!!!? It went for $1152.00....39 bids by 8 bidders.
"No returns accepted" the ad said. Someone is going to be very disappointed.
tiaroa@shaw.ca
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Author: heckelmaniac
Date: 2011-03-18 06:30
Wow. Way beyond expensive for a wall decoration or a lamp.
The sad aspect is that the seller was fully apprised as to the
deplorable condition of this EH. Perhaps the buyer can appeal to
Paypal Buyer Protection on the grounds that the seller's language in the auction description did not adequately convey the true condition (useless, damaged beyond salvaging) of the instrument. I will be curious to check the feedback from the buyer...
Peter
Oboes.us
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Author: Mike Hopkins
Date: 2011-03-18 18:59
Hi Chris,
I did enquire about this Cor and was sent pictures of a top quality Loree. When I queried this, I was told that they had TWO Cors for sale although no mention was made of this one on E Bay?
I said I could be interested in the Loree and heard absolutely nothing.
Buyers BEWARE!!
mhopkins706@aol.com
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-03-18 22:58
Uh-oh!
At least they didn't put photos of the Loree up only for the buyer to find out it's a knackered old Hüller when it arrives!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: heckelmaniac
Date: 2011-03-21 02:54
The Huller was purchased by my dealer friend Matt, a.k.a
quinn_the_eskimo, perhaps the most active dealer on Ebay for wind instruments.
I have apprised Matt of the duplicitous description.
Matt has his ways, and I am sure he will be able to get his money back though PayPal/Ebay, even with the stated "no returns accepted."
I neglected to mention the the bottom of the reed receiver is absolutely destroyed. The bottom of the metal reed receiver socket gone completely, and what is left of the reed receiver is oval shaped.
My fear is that this seller will simply sit on this instrument again for another 3 months or so once returned and try to resell to some poor unsuspecting soul...
Oboes.us
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-03-21 15:20
I've been pipped at the post by quinn_the_eskimo a few times only to find he's relisted the same instrument we were both bidding against not long after he's bought it for a considerably larger amount.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: CocoboloKid
Date: 2011-03-21 16:35
yeah, that's his M.O....many times have I seen him buy an instrument and turn around and immediately relist it for much more. I suppose that's his right, and it works for him. Still gets to be a bit annoying sometimes, though.
He occasionally puts some great finds up, however...I bought my old rosewood Leblanc Opus from him for a RIDICULOUSLY low price. He had no idea what he had, and didn't even know it was rosewood. Ended up being one of the best clarinets I have ever owned!
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2011-03-21 18:35
Does this quinn fellow bid with a bot? That's the only thing that I think is not fair. Otherwise, the advice to "buy low sell high" obtains.
I knew of a fellow who used to do this with used cars. He was pretty knowledgeable about the prices of cars, so he would troll the morning papers looking for underpriced (in Blue Book terms) autos for sale, buy them up, do absolutely nothing to them (not even register them), and turn them around for a couple hundred dollars profit.
If you do that several times a week, or better, several times a day, you end up making a living.
Susan
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Author: GoodWinds ★2017
Date: 2011-03-22 05:05
...but how does one's conscience live with that kind of 'living'???...
GoodWinds
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2011-03-22 20:17
The monetary value of something is what a willing buyer will pay and a willing seller will accept. I don't see an ethical conflict here.
Do folks end up paying different prices for essentially the same merchandise that way? Yes, certainly. In fact, many, if not all, marketers intentionally present their products at different price points in different media. Anyone who has booked an airline seat in the past 10 years knows that story!
If you've got it for sale for $X, and I want it and am willing to pay that for it, then we have an ethical contract, as long as you are not defrauding me about what it is you are selling.
Susan
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