 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: Loliver
Date: 2011-03-12 11:47
I have a problem with oboe reeds- they always seem to close really fast when I use them! and by fast, i'm talkin about like 5 mins, and its closed and I spend the rest of my band rehearsals either playing incredibly sharp, sounding very quiet and tinny, or fiddling around with them until they work.
I know its probably due to me biting down too hard (being a clarinet player for 9~10 years doesnt help), so does anyone know anyway I could perhaps lessen the problem?
Thanks
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2011-03-12 13:05
Sure! Just don't bite down on them!
But in case that is not a helpful answer, let me suggest something for you to try.
First off, roll your lips in easily over your teeth, top and bottom. Then with the lips thus rolled, create for yourself a HUGE overbite, pulling the lower lip further in. Where do you feel the tension in your lips at that point?
If you are doing this right, you will feel the tension almost entirely at the corners of the mouth.
Now, keeping your mouth in that position, insert your little finger slightly into your mouth at the center of your lips. much like you would insert a reed, and close the lips gently around the finger to create an air-tight seal. Can you feel that the center of the lips is softer than the sides? That's how soft they should feel while cushioning the reed tip.
Now, remove the finger and put a soaked reed where the finger was, create the air-tight seal, and blow easily. Get used to how this feels, and when you are comfortable, put the reed in the oboe and try it.
Remember, the function of the center of the lips is not to hold the reed, but to cushion the reed and create an air-tight seal.
Let me know if this helps!
Susan
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Author: Loliver
Date: 2011-03-12 13:50
Wow- that made a real difference
I think I overbite because I get nervous in band practice and so I tighten up, and then things just get worse. Its not fun sitting in the front row of a band when you are 6'8...
I'm also the only person to ever bite through a clarinet mouthpiece during a lesson- manged to sheer the tip right off!
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Author: WoodwindOz
Date: 2011-03-12 14:30
Also having played a bit of clarinet before starting oboe, the best way I found to overcome the feeling of needing to rest my teeth (translate: bite!) on the reed was to imagine the feel of a yawn with my mouth closed (I say to students, pretend you are in your most boring subject and you don't want the teacher to see you yawn. ). It is nearly impossible to assume this position and bite at the same time. The spin off benefit, of course, is that it then opens the throat and improves resonance inside the oral cavity, thus improving the sound quality as well.
I know very little about good reed warmups, but perhaps try an exercise on the reed alone where you aim to alter the tension of your lips (and thus your jaw - this is where the biting pressure originates from) on the reed in cycles, like a siren effect, which will also affect the pitch.
It seems to be a common problem here with young students biting, perhaps it is a short scrape thing, i.e. they have to work harder initially to get the sound working. I'd be interested to hear tips from others as well!
Rachel
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Author: oboereed1109
Date: 2011-03-19 16:14
I don't know if you make your own reeds or not, but I have found from my experience as both a performer and teacher, that store bought reeds are usually too closed. This is caused by cane that is a large sized diameter. When I make my reeds, I use cane that is 10 cm or smaller in the winter. The area of the reed just above the thread is very important. I call it the chamber of the reed. This should not be too closed, or the reed will be too closed. Also, make sure the reed's blades aren't displaced too much, if any. I try to make reeds without the blades displaced so I can get a decent sized chamber.
You must also be careful not to have a tight embouchure. Keep the corners of your mouth in, thinking of your lips like a drawstring or cushion around the reed. Always think of keeping your jaw dropped ("awe") also. Make sure your bottom lip is not too tight.
Hope this helps.
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Author: oboeobo
Date: 2011-03-19 16:38
My students have great luck with this advice. Consider trying to drink a very thick milkshake. If you engage your jaw, it probably isn't going to work! But this still allows muscular to be engaged in playing.
And I am 6'5, so I can almost relate!
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Author: HautboisJJ
Date: 2011-03-19 18:11
oboereed1109, you are the first american oboist on this board i know that believes in non displacement of the blades! I find that intriguing!
Regards, Howard
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Author: RobinDesHautbois
Date: 2011-03-19 19:43
ohsusan's answer is right on the money and your response to her is very revealing. As you get tired and/or nervous, you must learn to anticipate and correct biting. Firm lip is ok, but biting is a no-no. The only thing that helps me prevent that (even after all these years) is to concentrate on breathing from the bottom of the abdomen... my lower back usually bellows when I do it right.... yes, it affects the (non) biting! Otherwise, keep your reed well soaked and gently keep pinching its sides near the thread to open it.
I have met many oboists who prefer closed reeds because they are easier to blow and require less air pressure => this is where I have insisted before and continue to insist that the described characteristics of a "good" reed change according to the player's physiognomy.
For me reeds need "spring". My good reeds usually start out more open then most and close after about 15 minutes of playing: though many readers here might still find them open. For me, this is necessary to accommodate the large air supply and pressure from my loud-mouth constitution.
For people like me, blade displacement is a curse, but I must say some of my best ones in the past few months do overlap about 0.5mm. Although, in theory, I consider this a flaw, I cannot deny their quality. The quality is not DUE to the "slipping" because most of my reeds go bad when they slip and play better when I correct them and keep them aligned with cellophane (fishkin and such).
To prevent reeds from getting too hard while still having that "spring", I gouge my cane thinner (approx. 0.58mm) and scrape shorter. If you don't make your reeds, ask different reed makers what they think and choose according to their answers
Robin Tropper
M.A.Sc., B.Mus., B.Ed.
http://RobinDesHautbois.blogspot.ca/music
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Author: oboereed1109
Date: 2011-03-20 13:35
I thought of one more thing that has helped me. Staples play a huge role. Years ago, I tried Loree AK staples, which turned out to be a bad idea. My reeds were so closed that I couldn't use any of them. Needless to say, I didn't use them again. I also got some Bonazza staples, which turned out very badly also. These days, Sierra staples from Chudnow are my favorites. I think they sound beautiful, and I don't end up with reeds that are too closed.
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Author: Loliver
Date: 2011-03-20 14:03
In relation to whether or not I make my own reeds, I do not. I have to buy reeds, and have had pretty much the same problem with most brands I have tried.
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Author: Loliver
Date: 2011-03-21 15:39
Was all going swimmingly, until now...
Before playing, I put the reeds in my mouth for like 20s, like you are supposed to...but when I play, the sound is slightly muffled, and anything above high C just wont make a sound at all.
If anyone knows why this is, it would be much appreciatted
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Author: oboereed1109
Date: 2011-03-21 15:58
You don't soak your reeds in water??? Never soak your reeds only in saliva! Some of your problems you're having will probably go away if you soak your reeds in tepid (not hotn not cold) water. Also, remember to brush your teeth before you play to avoid getting who knows what in your reeds. I never play my oboe without first brushing my teeth. I carry toothbrush and toothpaste in my oboe bag, and would recommend that you do the same.
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Author: RobinDesHautbois
Date: 2011-03-21 19:20
<<L ike you are supposed to >>
..... I don't know who told you that, but they certainly don't make reeds! (Like most real oboists do...)
There was a discussion thread last summer on how much to soak in water (is it possible to oversoak). I believe 30 seconds to 2 minutes is good. If you forget your reeds for an hour or 2 days, no problem, let it dry a bit, play on it for awhile to close it and "tame it" but no harm done.
But definitely, soak your reeds in water to revive them, open them and prevent cracking!
Robin Tropper
M.A.Sc., B.Mus., B.Ed.
http://RobinDesHautbois.blogspot.ca/music
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Author: oboereed1109
Date: 2011-03-21 19:27
Who told me that? I am an oboist with many years experience as a performer, teacher and reed maker. Water works best. Period.
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Author: Loliver
Date: 2011-03-21 19:28
Ok....I'll start soaking in water, not saliva... My saliva is ridiculously acidic anyway, having been told that by numerous dentists, so that could be what is killing my reeds, although my reeds on clarinet could last anything up to a year or more.
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Author: oboedrew
Date: 2011-03-21 19:39
Hi, Oliver. It's fine to soak reeds in your mouth. Many oboists do it that way. I keep water handy only while making reeds, because I usually work on several at once, and I'd rather not hold one in my mouth while scraping another. But I never carry a container of water away from home. Some oboists have elaborate reed-soaking rituals, just as some athletes have pre-game good-luck rituals. To each their own, but there's nothing incorrect, unusual, or harmful about soaking reeds in your mouth. After five minutes of playing, they'll be soaked in your saliva anyway.
Cheers,
Drew
www.oboedrew.com
Post Edited (2011-03-21 19:41)
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Author: Loliver
Date: 2011-03-21 19:46
I know that they get wet in your mouth, its just whenever I play, if the reeds are wet, the sounds is fairly muffled, and if it is dry, it plays easily, probably far too easily, but is impossible to keep in tune.
I really am quite useless when it comes to reeds, so any advice is nice
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Author: RobinDesHautbois
Date: 2011-03-21 20:03
If it works for you, great... I certainly cannot argue against results!
But "wetting" in mouth is usually done by sax/clarinet players who take up the oboe as a double. In fact, most sax and clarinet players I met (from sea to sea) begin to soak their reeds in a glass of water too when they reach a certain level (Bachelors in performance).
A few oboists I knew swore that soaking in cognac worked much better than water... I have not actually tried that... perhaps it was their perception post injestion? ![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif)
Robin Tropper
M.A.Sc., B.Mus., B.Ed.
http://RobinDesHautbois.blogspot.ca/music
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Author: RobinDesHautbois
Date: 2011-03-21 20:18
---- This could be dependent on the climate where you live ----
What works best for me, and pretty much everyone I know, is to soak it in a small glass of water for about 30 seconds. If your reed is too open or hard and you think its because you soaked it too much, do long tones (all loud), scales or whatever warm-up you like without too much care on the sound for about 10 minutes. The reed will "settle in" to its optimal behaviour.
The climate here is similar to Ann-Arbor Michigan.
Robin Tropper
M.A.Sc., B.Mus., B.Ed.
http://RobinDesHautbois.blogspot.ca/music
Post Edited (2011-03-21 20:35)
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Author: oboereed1109
Date: 2011-03-21 20:18
I have Bachelor and Master of Music degrees in oboe performance. I studied for two more years hen I got out of school with Lou Rosenblatt. I have auditioned for the doctoral program at Boston University, where I would love to work with John Ferrillo. I haven't found out yet if I was accepted. I reached my own conclusions about water and saliva. I wouldn't call putting reeds to soak a ritual, just part of getting ready to play and having my reeds work the way they are supposed to. I have students complain abut their reeds, and many times they are having trouble because their reeds haven't been soaked in water.
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2011-03-22 02:45
oboereed1109 --
I don't think they're dissing you -- the quote was from loliver's post at 15:39
<<Before playing, I put the reeds in my mouth for like 20s, like you are supposed to...but . . .>>
Then at 19:20, Robin picks up on that and comments in a way that was supportive of your post from 15:58
<<<L ike you are supposed to >>>
<<..... I don't know who told you that,>>
His "I don't know who told you that" refers to loliver's statement that he thought he was supposed to soak reeds in his mouth, NOT to your suggestion that water is the standard way to soak!
Susan
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Author: colloquial42
Date: 2011-03-23 21:49
Remember to change your reed water regularly as well. Good rule of thumb: if it smells bad, it will likely taste bad as well :-)
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2011-03-23 22:56
Oh, yuck!
At least I KNOW I am not that bad. I have heard of some real science experiments taking place in oboe studios, however.
S.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2011-03-24 02:55
Didn't Ray Still say that he soaked his reeds in saliva?
Two oboists(sort of) that I know drink the reed water from their cup after the rehearsal or performance. It kind of turns me off but no one gets hurt from the process.
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