 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: ceri
Date: 2009-03-16 21:49
The key that you put your finger on to play A has been sticking (as in not lifting up properly) for the past couple of days. I finally realised today that it was only happening after I had played a G# and closer investigation revealed that the tiny lever which holds the A key down when you play G# is not lifting properly.
I am not at all sure that I have explained this clearly but does Chris or anyone else have any ideas of what I can do about it? (As far as I can see, it doesn't appear to have a screw to adjust).
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Author: wrowand
Date: 2009-03-16 22:25
It could be that the hinge tube for the lever you're talking about (which permits the Aflat/Bflat trill, and one option for the Bflat/Bnatural trill) is binding on the rod.
The best thing to do is to take it to a repairman.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-03-16 23:46
The Ab-Bb trill linkage on most pro oboes is usually lightly sprung so the free end drops with the LH2 fingerplate, and it has to be spring very lightly so it doesn't hold the LH2 fingerplate down, likewise the LH2 fingerplate has to be sprung strongly enough to counteract the weight and friction of the linkage bearing on the small lug soldered to the lower side.
Depending on the make and model, this linkage key can either have a single key barrel or be in two parts joined by a clutch (with or without an adjusting screw), it can have a rod screw running all the way through it, it could be mounted on one of the trill key steels (usually the longer C-D trill key) or mounted between point screws. Some makes and models will have this linkage lightly sprung, though sometimes it's not sprung at all.
If it is sprung, either the spring on the linkage is slightly too strong or the spring on the LH2 fingerplate is too light.
While holding the joint laid down horizontally in front of you and holding the LH2 fingerplate closed with one finger, try lifting the linkage lever with another and letting it go to see if it falls under its own weight or spring tension. If it remains up, then it could be binding against the screw (or screws) or between the pillars.
Now try the same thing but this time holding the joint up above you horizontally with the main action keys facing the ground. If the linkage lever returns against the closed LH2 fingerplate then the spring tension is too strong and should be lightened by disengaging it and then very gently bending the spring in towards the main action fingerplates before engaging it back into the spring cradle.
If the lever remains off the fingerplate when turned upside down and still moves freely, the spring tension is fine. But if you then press the lever and it remains in the closed position, the linkage could be binding against the screw(s) or one of the pillars (possibly the lower one) may have turned slightly causing the linkage key to bind.
So check the spring tension on the linkage and LH2 fingerplate and the screws mounting the linkage to see if its binding and adjust it accordingly. If you can, remove the trill keys and then remove the linkage (or remove them all at the same time) to see if the screw is binding inside the key barrel, or if it's mounted between point screws, check there's a tiny amount of lateral play between the pillars.
Also check the condition of the cork on the underside of the linkage at the fingerplate end - sometimes the cork or other silencing material can exert too much friction on the small lug on LH2 causing the fingerplate to slow down or remain down once closed, and you can often cure this by coating the cork with graphite from a soft pencil. With natural cork, it can become compressed and distorted, or worn through the cork exposing the adhesive used to stick the cork on the underside with and that too can make things sluggish.
And check this linkage is also well oiled and not gummed up if the oil has gone thick. Remove and clean the screw(s) and key barrel, add a drop or two the key barrel and replace the linkage, then add a single drop to the end of the key barrel (in the gap between the end and the pillar face) where the screw goes in and work the key a few times.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2009-03-16 23:51)
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Author: GoodWinds ★2017
Date: 2009-03-17 18:33
gosh you're a generous soul, chris P, with all the details. thanks for investing (your time) in us out here!
GoodWinds
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-03-18 00:04
I think I've covered most scenarios there!
Without having the oboe in my hands I can't diagnose the exact problem, so I hope one of those points leads to the solution.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2009-03-18 07:39
If your oboe has not been taken apart for many years and you DO oil it occasionally, my vote is that gummy oil is the culprit (Chris' last point in his email).
If it is the problem, chances are you need to strip and clean ALL the barrels and rods in your instrument. This first sticky key is just your early warning!
Two approaches here:
1. Take your instrument to a good, professional oboe repair person. These technicians are important people who will never be rich - help them stay in business, if you can afford to.
2. Fix it yourself. Make sure you have a good book (I think the Sawicki book is the one most people recommend) and set aside an afternoon.
Set up with all the correct tools (yes, that includes a spring hook) (no, a crochet hook is NOT sufficient - you need to be able to push as well), a large clear table and a notebook. Lock the door and strip and clean all the barrels and rods according to the instructions.
Oil each barrel with a tiny drop of oil as you assemble, blotting away excess before it hits the wood. A digital camera is useful - take a snap of each stage so you can remind yourself how it is put back together. Don't mix up the rods - keep each rod with its key or keys.
Let us know if this is the cause, won't you?
J.
Post Edited (2009-03-18 07:46)
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Author: johnt
Date: 2009-03-18 15:48
Begging respectfully to differ with Jeremy's excellent post above, but crochet hooks do indeed work very nicely. All that is required is a rattail or small bastard file to file a notch in the butt end of the hook. Crochet hooks are readily available at craft stores or WallyWorld for a buck or so. I have two: a #2/2.25MM & a #5/1.90MM (Boye). Carl Sawicki has a picture of a notched screwdriver in his Oboe Revealed book (unfortunately out of print) which would work just fine also. Another hint from John Symer: use automatic transmission fluid (ATF) or automotive gear oil to oil rods. A quart of either will last well into the next century even if you have two or three instruments to maintain. Good old fashioned Yankee ingenuity will triumph over profligate spending every time. Then go spend the money you save on cane, tube or otherwise. My 2ยข
Best,
john
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-03-18 15:51
Yamaha spring hooks are just that - crochet hooks with a slot cut in both ends.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: vboboe
Date: 2009-03-18 15:59
start with the simplest diagnostic first and work towards the more complex after that
this was my third thought, but it should come first
use a magnifying glass (if necessary) to inspect all the moving parts for this key mechanism and related linkages, to see if there are any hairs or fibres stuck in there, and if so, pull them out *before* oiling anything
...my first thought as a novice in mechanical -- when was it key oiled recently or when was the last time it got any key oil?
Too often we owners just assume it was done last time the repair guy saw it -- they just work the problem you took it in for unless you've specifically asked for oiling, but of course it all depends on any particular repair guy's method with instruments
it's amazing how the tiniest amount of key oil in those fine spaces between fittings on rods can miraculously free up sticky mechanism
Repeat, key oil from the woodwind department, mine is in needle oiler -- but do not apply directly from this, even needle oiler dispenses too much oil for the job
Based on your description, check the rod that passes under left (basic) G# key
i use a flat toothpick, thin end, dip in key oil, pass around each space on that rod (two ends and one in between, also the link lever & pin right under the A key) and work the key as you do this to help the oil spread around moving parts
while you're at it, oil the spaces at rod ends which hold the G# lever (on the front above F# bridge) and all of the right side G# mechanism likewise
much better to use less oil, up to 2-3x light applications, than glob too much and then have to fiddle about mopping up
... and second thought -- has a spring come off its hook?
check spring under the same rod that passes under the left G# key, the A key-cap is a shortish spring under there
if you don't have a spring hook, a fine crochet hook can substitute until you invest in a spring hook, very efficient tool
springs can be jumped off while using a cleaning rag that gets caught on the pointed end of a spring wire, so it's not that uncommon to have a spring off, the spring hook tool is very handy in your kit
if none of these easy DIY solutions work, move on to the excellent other choices ahead of you
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Author: Ian White
Date: 2009-03-18 19:17
"it's amazing how the tiniest amount of key oil in those fine spaces between fittings on rods can miraculously free up sticky mechanism"
This is only a get-you-out-of-a-corner remedy - you are only diluting the old, dirty & sticky oil. It is time for a proper service - get it stripped down & all the old gunk cleaned off & start over with fresh oil.
Of course this might not be the answer to your difficulty as others have suggested.
Good luck
Ian
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Author: ceri
Date: 2009-03-18 21:53
Thanks Chris. Your post enabled me to decide that it was not a spring problem. Coward that I am, I got my oboe teacher to take it apart, clean it and add a drop of oil and it is working again now.
How often does this sort of thing happen? The oboe was restored and fully serviced about 18 months ago. I was going to take it for a service in the summer and am slightly worried that other things are going to start sticking before then.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-03-18 23:21
18 months is probably the maximum recommended time between servicing if you're playing full-time. Even after being fully overhauled, routine servicing should still be done at regular intervals just as you'd have your car serviced to be sure everything's working as it should be, and anything that needs attention can be done to keep it running well.
You should really look at having it serviced every 12 months - plan ahead for a time when you know you won't need it for a week or so and pre-book it well in advance for a service to be sure it can be done for when you next need it.
At the moment, get some thin oil such as sewing machine oil, and add a single drop applied with a needle to all the mechanism where you can see gaps between pillars and key barrels, and in the gaps between adjacent key barrels. This will find its way into the mechanism by capillary action.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2009-03-19 07:16
"All that is required is a rattail or small bastard file to file a notch in the butt end of the hook."
Thanks for the tip!
I asked Mike Briton to throw a spring-hook into the case when I bought my loree a few years back (he did so gladly). Up until then I had been struggling with crochet hooks, paper-clips and the like.. I tried filing a notch in the end, but my crochet hook was made of sterner stuff than the micro-file I had at my disposal.
Thanks also for the tip about transmission fluid. It certainly won't gum up the works like some of the "pro" instrument oils on the market. It is probably important to remove all traces of the old oil before switching over, however. you never know how two different oils will mix.
Ceri, while Chris is obviously correct about annual services, I would not expect an oboe to gum up within 18 months of a major overhaul. Do you oil the instrument yourself? what oil do you use? How old is it? Is it a different oil to the one used by your repair person?
J.
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Author: ceri
Date: 2009-03-19 13:46
I play regularly (almost daily) but not professionally. Unfortunately I live a long way from an oboe repairer and have found that the easiest option is to have it looked at by Howarths when I'm in the UK in the summer. Last summer, for various reasons, I was unable to do so.
I don't oil the oboe myself - my limit to oboe maintenance is to adjust the odd screw.
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Author: johnt
Date: 2009-03-19 14:48
Thanks, Jeremy, for your kind words.
Yes, always a good idea to remove old oil before applying new. It's not rocket science to remove rods from an oboe. In fact the top tube main rod holding the three left-hand fingered keys should be removed every three or four months, rod wiped off, key tubes reamed with a pipe cleaner, tone holes swabbed out with a mini dental brush (available at pharmacies) dipped in isopropyl alcohol (91% solution) or sprayed with Woodwind All, then ream holes with a pipe cleaner sprayed with Woodwind All. Wipe off the key pads with cigarette paper soaked in alcohol & spray the pads with Woodwind All. Oil the rod with three to four drops of oil & put a drop of oil at the entry point of the rod to eacn key rod casing & reassemble. Good idea also to place the needle springs in their respective slots as you install each key. Wipe off any oil which may have inadvertently gotten onto the wood. It doesn't take long to do this, about an hour or so. This process performed at appropriate intervals will keep those 18 month maintenance/repair bills to a minimum.
Best,
john
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-03-19 14:52
Instead of spraying Woodwind-All directly onto pads, spray it onto a cotton bud and lightly wipe the pads with it as that won't contaminate the rest of the keywork.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: johnt
Date: 2009-03-19 18:33
Attachment: woodwind-all.jpg (8k)
Woodwind-All is available from Forrests in Berkeley, CA or RDG, Inc. in LA Not sure if it can be shipped overseas or not. About $7 USD
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-03-19 22:54
It's a mixture of solvent and mineral oil in an aerosol can.
Good for removing beeswax.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2009-03-19 22:54)
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The Clarinet Pages
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