 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: woodwindfreak
Date: 2008-12-24 16:15
I'm noticing huge differences in tone depending how long
I let my reeds soak. I'm wondering what the optimal amount
is and if you can ruin a reed by letting it soak too long.
also, does playing on a reed that has not been soaked enough
ruin it?
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Author: Dutchy
Date: 2008-12-24 18:02
When I was first getting started, I got so frustrated by constantly either oversoaking (I'd put it in to soak and then go off and do something and forget about it for 30 minutes), or undersoaking (too dry, won't play yet) that I finally went out to Target and got an old-fashioned egg timer. If the reed is "currently in use", IOW, it's already rather damp, then I soak it for no more than one turn (i.e. 3 minutes). And if I just played it last night, IOW it's still extremely damp, then depending on the ambient humidity, sometimes I just dip it in the water and let it sit out for 3 minutes.
If the reed hasn't been "in use", IOW, it's been on the "inactive" list, then I give it two turns (i.e. 6 minutes), or sometimes three turns.
If I let an "active" reed sit longer than that, yes, it swells up too much and becomes quite stuffy, which is annoying. It'll still play, but it doesn't sound very nice.
The only bad effect I've ever noticed from oversoaking, aside from rendering them briefly unplayable, is that they tend to grow a film of bacterial scum (the "glop" or "gunk" that peroxide removes).
I've occasionally totally forgotten about a reed soaking and come back to it the next day, still patiently waiting in its cup, and have noticed no long-term ill effects.
I don't see how playing on a dry reed would affect it at all, let alone ruin it. You're just putting a stick of wood in your mouth, and if it's too dry, it won't flex against the grip of your embouchure--it's just a stick. As long as you're not crunching on it with your teeth, I don't see how putting it in your mouth could damage it.
And as soon as you put it in your mouth, of course, it begins to rehydrate from your saliva.
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Author: vboboe
Date: 2008-12-24 19:27
yes, agree, tone of reeds depends a lot on how dry or wet they are
anecdotally, over-soaking is said to shorten reed's playing life because water leaches the cane and weakens it -- and, since playing breaks the fibers apart (rapid vibrations do that) there are more entrances for water to leach the cane as the reed ages, thus, old reeds are more porous than young reeds, and that could equal pre-soak young reeds a bit longer and just wet-up old reeds by dipping and laying flat to soak up
once a playing reed is in water, my mind is set on alert mindfulness, they need me to rescue them from drowning ... so i like to have all essential other chores done and off my to-do list before pre-soaking reeds
i can't play my reeds if they're really dry, they're stiff, unresponsive, resistant and produce a low, dry dull sound, so at least some wetting up makes them flexible enough to vibrate cheerfully
like anything else with reeds, it's all relative and hugely intuitive -- based on unconscious competance from the experience of playing many different reeds over time -- but that isn't helpful to someone who wants to know if there are any general guidelines
i think the easiest guideline to go by is put reeds in water before starting to set up for playing, the time it takes to set up is usually enough for reeds to be in water
i haven't had the scum problem, perhaps the residual bleach agent in our local water is strong enough to sanitize my reeds
what i do in this winter weather is put 3 reeds in tepid water at the tap
sit down in my home practice area
physically warm up oboe pieces if they're cold to the touch
assemble instrument & hold it between knees, calves & ankles to keep it warmish
put out my music and sort it so i've got what i want to practice all ready in order
... and then test a reed by pressing and feeling it between my lips
if it feels ready i squawk it, that usually tells me if it's fully flexible or just partly flexible
if the latter, dip again, scooping up water inside the blades, and place in warm mouth to let it soak in
... and then test it on low D, if it can play there and on down to low Bb quite softly, it's wet enough to play
... and then, if it plays top C#, D and Eb (half hole notes) cheerfully and loudly with light to moderate air behind them, it's 'dry enough' to play too
... and then i take the other two out and put them in the reed case
when i go to orchestra practice, i drive there and park, put 3 reeds in covered vial of water while still in the car, lockup, walk into the warm hall, get chair, sit down, set up music stand, take reeds out of water, gently shake off some excess and put them into closed reed case, get music and instrument out, etc. and when ready to play, select the reed i already know will do an easy A-440 first :-)
keeping the reeds inside a closed reed case keeps them nice and moist all the time to coffee break even in the warm hall, so usually any of the other reeds are playable right away for the second half, although pre-warming in moist mouth helps ensure their flexibility
so all in all that's maybe 5 minutes while the reeds are directly in water
these are reeds that have already been blown in, used a little bit ahead of time
for brand new reeds out of the box, i presoak them "enough" -- it depends how dry they look to start with -- usually 10-20 mins for medium reeds, depending on how dry and warm the air temperature is, and i use tepid water in cold weather, and tap cold water in hot weather
for 'old' reeds -- those that are past their playing prime -- cannot produce or maintain a sustained forte -- but still playable and still tuneful for practicing softly on scales etc -- i dip these reeds in water and put them in reed case with some water between the blades to soak in, that's usually enough most of the year
except in very hot dry weather, then i leave them in water so they're wet all the way through first -- they dry out so fast while playing, it's better to make sure they're nicely 'plump' first, so in very hot dry weather i put a played reed back into water rather than air dry them
most of the year here i like to change the first reed when it's been played awhile, because otherwise it gets 'too wet to play' -- when a wet reed can't produce a vibrant forte and is 'whiny' when played softly, time is already overdue to air-dry it before using it again
hope this lengthy treatise helps
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Author: D
Date: 2008-12-24 21:42
I have observed that if I get distracted and leave a reed in for a while the water goes a little yellow in colour.
Ick.
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Author: cjwright
Date: 2008-12-24 21:45
Voboe is correct in the fact that oversoaking reeds will leach the organic material in the cane (i.e. starch) that needs to be in there. When this organic stuff is completely leached, the cane fibers become harder, and more brittle, and have less flexibility.
Using Peroxide will also leach/destroy the organic material, and while it might clean out the reed of food/sludge in the reed temporarily, it will also clean out the organic material. Hence, after using peroxide, your reeds often feel small, tinny, and don't respond well.
The best advice I ever got was from Dan Stolper when I was a student at Interlochen. He merely said to dip it in water, shake off the excess water, and let them sit on the side of your shot glass for 2 or 3 minutes (depending on the humidity). 10 years later, I still follow his advice.
It's generally bad to oversoak your reeds or use warm/hot for reedmaking purposes as well. The heat causes the fibers to expand more than they would normally, and give a false sense of what the reed will actually be when it dries back out. Another reason is the more you expand a reed, the more it will contract, and the more warpage there will be. This warpage obviously changes the reed dramatically from when you're scraping to when you go to play.
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Author: GoodWinds ★2017
Date: 2008-12-25 22:09
'organic material' might give the water a yellow tone, but that doesn't necessarily mean 'bacteria'. Watch it, though, if the water gets cloudy!
GoodWinds
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Author: oboe1960
Date: 2008-12-26 18:53
If you're worried about stuff building up inside the reed, send a pipe cleaner carefully up through the reed from the bottom a couple of times. It will safely remove whatever is lurking inside. Don't do it to a dry reed, though!
Post Edited (2008-12-26 19:01)
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Author: GoodWinds ★2017
Date: 2008-12-27 04:02
I like the pipe cleaner thing, and have used it without ever causing a reed to crack; I'd be careful to avoid using a dry pipe cleaner, as well as a dry reed.
(And no, Cooper, you didn't imply 'bacteria'. I was interpreting the 'ick' from author D.)
GoodWinds
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2008-12-27 16:31
Next time you are in a pharmacy, take a detour through the dental hygene section. Look for those tiny inter-dental brushes with long, thin, twisted-wire stems. You drop one stem first through the staple (blow it through if it doesn't protrude) and then you can carefully clean out the inside of the reed. Works wonders.
J.
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Author: EaubeauHorn
Date: 2008-12-29 18:03
You have to consider the ambient humidity when deciding how long to soak reeds. For example, in a Midwestern summer's humid climate, just dipping it and letting it stand for a few minutes is entirely logical. However, in the desert Southwest where I live, where there is often single-digit humidity, a simple dip-and-let-stand routine will get you a reed that is remarkably drier than the Midwestern one started out at before dipping. Any water on the reed will evaporate long before it has a chance to soak into the cane. Here in the desert, five minutes is none-too-small a time frame to soak a reed before crow-testing it for readiness.
MA
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Author: GoodWinds ★2017
Date: 2008-12-31 05:02
yup. Us desert-dwellers have to soak longer. Mountain people too, in general.
GoodWinds
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