 The Oboe BBoard
|
Author: claire70
Date: 2008-09-24 19:59
I've been having some reed making lessons. Although I've been happily scraping bought reeds for years, I've now discovered that my scraping technique is rubbish, so I'm trying to relearn. Apparently I was using too much right-hand wrist, and therefore digging in, and not getting my left-hand thumb onto the blade enough.
However, after half an hour of hacking / mangling, I'm still confused. There seem to be two options. Should my left thumb be resting on the very top of the blade, or positioned behind the blade, with not very much thumb sticking over? The former seems to be easier ergonomically, but it also seems to make it easier to dig in - but maybe that's just my incompetence.
I think it comes down to whether I'm using my right wrist to move the blade along, or my left thumb. I was doing the former but my teacher wants me to do the latter.
I also don't seem to be able to get the reed in a comfortable position in my left hand any more. I just feel all fingers and thumbs!
Oh, and while we're here, I'm doing a splendid job of hacking the corners off my tips :-( I guess I probably shouldn't make them so thin, at least at first...
Post Edited (2008-09-24 20:40)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: cjwright
Date: 2008-09-24 20:20
I keep my thumb on the very edge of the handle, barely hanging off the end of it. My thumb however is NOT on the blade, pushing down.
In David Weber's Reedmaker's Manual, he talks about some interesting concepts which might help you. He says to scrape like you're scratching an itch, not to scrape to bleed. His scraping concept is to scrape in layers, and rather than "digging deeper here to take more cane off", he suggests "scraping with the itch scrape to take off more layers of cane, i.e. more strokes with a terracing effect".
Just something to think about.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: mschmidt
Date: 2008-09-24 23:47
Well, you do need to make the tips thin--hacking off the corners is usually more a problem with the blade angle and pressure rather than making the tips too thin. But even we experienced reed makers still hack off the corners on occasion...too many occasions...it's damn easy to do!
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GoodWinds ★2017
Date: 2008-09-25 06:30
Hi Claire,
We've all mashed off a few corners... I am a well-taught amateur, so just sharing my own experience.
I get less damage when I:
- keep my knife edge very sharp (test it on the surface of a thumbnail; the knife should 'catch' or 'hold' with very little pressure)
- take off teensy weensy amounts of cane at a time (a firm 'tickle' vs a 'hard scratch' to use that beautiful analogy), then try the reed again
- cut the reed in stages, trying to improve the sound a little bit each time.
Hope that helps.
mary aka GoodWinds
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jhoyla
Date: 2008-09-25 11:32
Hi Claire,
Basically there are two different scraping techniques which can be used individually or in combination.
The one your teacher is trying for is the one recommended by Edith Rothwell in her reed-making book. With this scrape you maintain a steady "angle of attack" with the knife-hand (in all dimensions), and you push the blade forward with your thumb. Your non-knife-hand thumb should be pushing the back of the blade, near the top but not over the top.
The other method (recommended by, among others, Dr. Stephen Hiramoto of North Texas Oboe Reeds) is to use a wrist-rotation to scrape, using the non-knife-hand thumb as a pivot. You can pivot in the middle of the blade or closer to the top for a longer stroke. The thumb is positioned as appropriate.
For the wrist and pivot method your thumbnail must be VERY short. File it down before you start. Best is to be able to use both methods, and know when each is appropriate.
The thumb-push is great for long-even scrapes through the whole length of the lay. Its disadvantage is its tendency to destroy reed corners, as you have discovered :-) This is because it digs equally throughout the stroke, and when you get close to a corner that is already thin it just cuts right through. The wrist-swivel is very useful for thinning the corners, since the angle of attack changes as you twist. By the time the blade is over the corner it is moving almost horizontally and is perpendicular to the cane, so you cut less.
[It is helpful to adjust the corners when the cane is almost completely dry, since it is easier to "dust" the cane this way.]
Before taking a stroke with your (extremely sharp) knife, position your knife-hand elbow to adjust your scraping angle. If you are scraping towards the far corner, the elbow should be quite high and out. If you are scraping towards the near corner, your elbow should be low and closer to the body.
A choice quote from Martin Schuring:
"The two secrets to reed-making:
o Sharpen your knife
o Don't make any mistakes"
I just LOVE this quote - it is SO true. If you don't know how to sharpen your knife to razor sharpness, stop making reeds RIGHT NOW, and go and learn this essential technique first. I sharpen my blade more than once while making EACH reed, and I can assure you that all the pros do exactly the same. If your knife is sharp, you need little or no downward pressure on the cane in order to scrape. That way, you don't tear off the corners ... get it? :-)
So - sharpen your knife, make no mistakes, and your reedmaking will improve dramatically :-)
Good luck!
J.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: claire70
Date: 2008-09-25 15:16
Thanks J, it's really nice to know that my method is valid too. I felt like I was going insane trying to swap!
I will practice the thumb-push method on dead reeds, but in the meantime I'll carry on as I was, and not let my teacher see me!
Knife-sharpening recommendations already taken on board :-)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jendereedknife
Date: 2008-09-25 22:10
A sharp knife is the answer to many of the problems that occur when scraping a reed.
I'd say that about 99.999% of the sharpening information in the world is geared toward sharpening everything but a reed knife.
If anyone has any reed knife sharpening questions, you can ask me.
Sincerely,
Tom Blodgett
President,
Jende Industries, LLC
www.jendeindustries.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: oboedrew
Date: 2008-09-26 23:35
Claire,
For me the left thumb rests against the reed, and the back of the knife (held in my right hand) rests against the thumb. The thumb serves as a fulcrum of sorts, against which the knife pivots. The motion of the knife is controled entirely by the right wrist. But however you move the knife forward, it's important that you apply little or no downward pressure. If your knife has been sharpened correctly, gravity pulling on the weight of the blade should result in sufficient pressure. If much more pressure is applied, it will be difficult to get the tip thin enough without tearing off bits and pieces. I agree 100% with Tom in that a knife correctly sharpened is hugely important. And that's a great analogy from David Weber. You should be able to remove cane with the blade gently gliding over the surface of the reed. The danger in pushing the knife forward with the left thumb is that it's very easy to get carried away and apply downward pressure.
Cheers,
Drew
www.oboedrew.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jhoyla
Date: 2008-09-27 18:54
Claire, hi, me again ..
Take a look at Atherholt's Mindbytes video clip on youtube:
http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=lTzKTejstNg
About 1 minute into the 3 minute clip is where he starts scraping. watch his first scrape very carefully, and notice that he uses a combination of wrist action and pushing the blade with his thumb. His first stroke goes from the lowest point of the back all the way to the tip - this is NOT just a wrist action! He pushes forward with his thumb at the same time.
There are other reedmaking videos on youtube where you can see other reedmakers do the same. I tend to agree with your teacher, that it is easiest to learn to master both of these techniques separately before using them in combination. If you can, get a copy of Evelyn Rothwell's "Guide to Oboe Reed Making", which has good explanations and illustrations of this method of scraping.
J.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: EaubeauHorn
Date: 2008-10-15 20:53
I'll address the comfort with the reed in your left hand question, since I had trouble with this too.
Instead of doing what my teacher does and hold the reed in one position while changing the position of my scraping arm for the other side of the reed, I hold the knife position constant and change how I hold the reed in my reed-holding hand.
For one side of the reed, the mandrel handle is down in my palm, and for the other side of the reed, the mandrel handel is between my thumb and forefinger, very similar to how I hold a pencil.
For me, this was easier to learn than changing the angle of my scraping arm and having to learn two ways of scraping.
As usual, YMMV.
EBH
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
