 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: Dutchy
Date: 2008-09-23 15:34
I'm working with the Belwin Mills/Blaine Edlefsen Oboe Student Book III Advanced Intermediate book, the 1971 edition. And on page 32, he says to hold down the left hand Ab and the left hand Eb keys simultaneously, in preparation for learning e3 and f3 on the next page.
And I'm here to tell ya, the biomechanics of it just ain't workin'. The Left hand Eb key bends inwards, towards the body of the oboe, and the Ab key bends outwards, away from the body of the oboe, and after several minutes of experimentation, trying to mash down both keys at the same time, during which I gave myself a cramp in my left hand pinkie, I have come to the conclusion that either he's crazy, or he's writing for alien oboists who have two left hand pinkies.
And anyway, I figured out a long time ago that I can play e3 and f3 with using combinations of both the left hand and right hand Ab and Eb keys. It's not pretty, but the notes do come out. And I'm not likely to need fluency in them whilst playing along with hymns in church.
Anyway. Does this work for other people? Am I just pinkie-challenged?
Post Edited (2008-09-23 15:46)
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Author: johnt
Date: 2008-09-23 16:45
Dutchy,
They need to be bent closer together so that this becomes a natural thing to do. It is absolutely essential to be able to hold these keys down for the famous sextuplet oboe solo in the largo movement of the New World Symphony by Dvorak as well as for many other note combinations in key signatures with multiple sharps & flats. Take your oboe to a competent repair shop & explain what is needed. This cluster of keys needs to be properly aligned for your sanity as well as the notes.
Best,
john
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2008-09-23 17:24
When "mashing" down on these keys, it is the LH Eb key that needs to go down all the way. You only need to touch the Ab key to raise it sufficiently to sound.
On instruments with the "split E" mechanism, the LH Eb will cause the inner part of the RH ring-finger mechanism to close, but stay vented. This keeps the "E" in tune even though the Eb hole is venting. If you press your RH Eb key while fingering an "E", you'll hear how sharp this note gets! [On many instruments it is quite sharp enough already, without needing any help from you.]
Here's the crunch; even if you DON'T have the split-E mechanism, you should practice this fingering ANYWAY - so you don't have to "unlearn" things later on.
J.
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Author: vboboe
Date: 2008-09-24 01:10
... as an additional thought, methinks Dutchy's got a beginner's Fox model? no split ring anyway, so perhaps LEb & LAb aren't so closely or ergonomically positioned as they would be on an advanced / pro model, and perhaps the keywork is 'heavier' (not as springy) as well
dutchy, have you tried turning the joint just a fraction towards LEb to minimize the distance between it and LAb? Alternatively, a fraction the other way might work better on your instrument? As long as the F# key extension closes the G# cap properly, a slight joint twist could bring the keys into a better position for working together
thanks jhoyla for that hot tip that only LEb lowers the inner part of split ring mechanism, not REb
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Author: GoodWinds ★2017
Date: 2008-09-24 04:54
You're probably trying to use your fingertip, and not the level pad of the pinkie (from the middle joint). If that doesn't work, you might chalk it up to the ergonomics of your particular oboe.
How important is Blaine Edlefsen's advice to you? Do what's most comfortable, and keep your fingers LIGHT.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-09-24 12:30
I used to 'mash' these keys together when I took up oboe the fiirst time round (when I had a plastic B&H Regent), but thought it was a bad habit I taught myelf so I could get around flat keys easier (eg. "the famous sextuplet oboe solo in the largo movement of the New World Symphony by Dvorak").
Though when I took it up again later on, my teacher did say this is fairly standard practice to mash both the Ab and LH Eb together. It's not particularly easy to do as you're holding down two fairly heavily sprung and opposingly hinged keys with the weakest finger, though keep trying it to find the best way that suits your fingers.
The above advice about holding the Eb key down fully and nudging the Ab is good. On some oboes it's easier to do due to the design of the keywork.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Dutchy
Date: 2008-09-24 15:29
Okay, basically I wondered if it was standard practice, so I guess it is. It's not likely I'll be needing to play the Dvorak solo any time soon, though, but I will work on it. My Fox 333, yes, does have heavier keywork than the Selmer 1492 I started on, and I can't see that the two keys are ergonomically designed, because they hinge in opposite directions. And yes, I'm using the flat part of my finger, and it still not working. But focusing on getting the Eb and letting the Ab take care of itself sounds good, and maybe tweaking the joints, I'll work on that. But I don't know any oboe technician who's competent enough to be entrusted with bending keys, and I don't need the function that badly anyway.
Thanks, all.
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Author: D
Date: 2008-09-24 16:10
I just had a look and I appear to be able to achieve this physical impossibility on my oboe, so while you have the page open Dutchy, could you explain what I am supposed to use it for? (I haven't tried with a reed attached, so it could be that nothing comes out).
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Author: claire70
Date: 2008-09-24 19:52
I'm just starting to learn this trick too. It's not so bad when you get the hang of it - I don't seem to have the alignment problem you do though. Gillet no. 1 here I come!
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Author: vboboe
Date: 2008-09-25 01:29
<<I just had a look and I appear to be able to achieve this physical impossibility on my oboe, so while you have the page open ... could you explain what I am supposed to use it for?>>
i happened by, had the page open, saw UK ISP, jumped in, hope dutchy doesn't mind ?
tongue in cheek, you could use it for blatty notes on Guy Fawkes Night ...
seriously ... the combo is used as basic 'harmonic' fingering for High E on conservatory model oboes
-- thumb-plate model, check your fingering chart, if there is more than one way of playing High E shown, usually the first column is basic, the others will be alternate fingerings
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Author: Dutchy
Date: 2008-09-26 03:30
I hauled out the booklet that came with my Fox, it has an official Fox fingering chart in the back of it, and lo and behold it indicates that e3 and f3 are supposed to be played with this "mashed" fingering, utilizing the Ab and left-hand Eb keys simultaneously, with right-hand Ab and regular Eb for certain alternate fingerings in cases of d3 preceding and/or following. So I guess I'll just have to bite the bullet and learn how to do it.
It also indicates (surprise!) that apparently I'm supposed to be able to play this puppy up to g3. Uh huh. Like that's going to happen any time soon... ![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif)
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