 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: claire70
Date: 2008-01-13 19:04
Some of you will have read of my travails with my new oboe in previous posts... I have a new problem!
Today I had a day-long rehearsal for an up-coming concert. Not just my 2nd octave key, not just my first *and* 2nd octave keys, but a total of FOUR keys were getting severely waterlogged by lunchtime. So the two octaves (especially the 1st), PLUS the small key between B and A (that was really bad too), PLUS the small key between A and G.
I have noticed the octave keys starting to gurgle when I've practiced at home (max. an hour - but it starts to gurgle after about 15 mins). Obviously with this longer rehearsal, it was soooo much worse. I assiduously swabbed out every time we had a break (roughly after an hour of playing), and sometimes in between too, in long rests. Yet by the middle of the afternoon it was just ridiculously gurgley and I could barely get rid of the water any more. (If I put a cigarette paper under the key(s) and blew through the top joint, about half of the cigarette paper would come out soaked through.)
Are there any solutions to this or do I just have to live with it? I am worried about what is going to happen in the concert!
Post Edited (2008-01-13 19:06)
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2008-01-13 20:03
Do you oil the bore? This can happen to me when I have oiled the bore recently.
If so, try running a small amount of soapy water down the "back" side of the bore, opposite the tone holes, to "lay-down" a track for moisture to follow. A turkey baster may be useful for this. Do it slowly! And never, ever tip the instrument forward (tone-holes downwards). Never.
Hope the problem clears up soon!
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Author: claire70
Date: 2008-01-13 20:27
jhoyla wrote:
> Do you oil the bore? This can happen to me when I have oiled
> the bore recently.
>
> If so, try running a small amount of soapy water down the
> "back" side of the bore, opposite the tone holes, to "lay-down"
> a track for moisture to follow. A turkey baster may be useful
> for this. Do it slowly! And never, ever tip the instrument
> forward (tone-holes downwards). Never.
>
> Hope the problem clears up soon!
No, I haven't oiled the bore, partly because I'm scared to, and partly because Howarths (where I bought it 3 months ago) told me it wouldn't be necessary.
Should I try the soapy water anyway?
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Author: hautbois
Date: 2008-01-13 20:51
Claire -- I would be reluctant to send water, soapy or otherwise, down the bore of my oboes.
I suggest you oil the bore lightly (and swab out the excess after it has had a chance to sink into the wood -- preferable overnight) to counteract any channel which the instrument may have been forming for moisture to follow. And then pay close attention to how your warm up when first playing the instrument. If the instrument is cold to the touch or if there is a draft or chill in the room, then warm the top joint under your arm before playing. Then, first play low notes, for which all the octave vents and the pads in the upper joint are closed, for awhile, during which time the interior of the top joint will become warmer, reducing the possiblity of condensation from your warm, moist breath in any of the toneholes (not to mention reducing the possiblity of a crack forming!). Then, during rests in the music, hold the instrument again under your arm (I like to wear a sweater or jacket for the purpose of providing additional warming area for the instrument) to keep it warm to avoid that condensation, trying not to hold it horizontal, but in a more vertical position. Occasionally look down the bore of the instrument from the top. If you see a column of water going down the side of the bore opposite from the tone holes, don't swab -- let the capillary action of the moisture continue to draw moisture to that side of the instrument and down the bore. If there is water instead traveling down the bore near a tone hole, swab thoroughly.
Once water is in a key, before you swab, blow across the tonehole and then blow through the key into the tonehole to encourage moisture to go back to the bore. Then swab and blot the tonehole with cigarette paper. I keep a photography lens blower (just a rubber ball with a short tube which I can aim at the tonehole) in my case, as using it is less noisy than using my breath.
Good luck.
Elizabeth
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Author: cjwright
Date: 2008-01-13 21:26
I'd echo Elizabeth. I've used the soapy water trick for PLASTIC oboes (specifically, my plastic topjoint) but never for wooden oboes.
One trick that I have heard recently about: Tom Hiniker, one of the finest oboe makers in the world (currently a 5 year waiting list) and maker of the famous Hiniker EH and d'amore bocals uses Thompson's water sealant. Apparently he puts tin-foil underneath all of the pads, dips a feather into the water sealant, drains off the extra sealant, and swabs the feather into bore. I know it sounds crazy, but If Mr. Hiniker is doing it, I'd suspect it's pretty safe. In fact, I'm going to try this in a couple of hours.
Blog, An Oboe In Paradise
Solo Oboe, Thailand Philharmonic Orchestra
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-01-13 23:41
Claire, has your oboe got an added thumbplate or is it pure conservatoire system?
The problem is mostly due to the cold weather, and the best and simplest solution is to take the top joint off and shake it to dislodge water from the main action toneholes (when you have time during playing to do this, and also making sure you are holding it firmly as you shake it!), then close all the fingeplates with your left hand and the end of the tenon with any finger from your right hand and open each 8ve key while sucking and blowing into the top of the joint to remove the water from the 8ve keys. The run your pullthrough up the top joint to absorb any that gets in the bore.
Condensation is something we all will have trouble with, but deal with it as calmly as possible - and no noisy blowing into toneholes like clarinet players do!
On oboes with a thumbplate (both thumbplate and dual system), the Bb abd C toneholes are open standing, so shaking the water from these is easy. On conservatoire system oboes, you will have to hold the upper end of the rocker bar down against the body to open the Bb and C toneholes to clear them.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2008-01-14 07:50
I suppose I should have said it was an idea I read on the web:
http://www.tomsparkesoboes.com.au/toms_tips.htm
Tom Sparks' oboes are made of wood, not plastic. However, I suppose Caveat Emptor applies here also. Chris's, Cooper's and Elizabeth's advice is - as always - sound.
J.
Post Edited (2008-01-14 08:17)
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Author: claire70
Date: 2008-01-14 08:08
Thanks for the tips everyone. It *was* very cold in the room we were in yesterday so it sounds as if that was part of the issue. I will take your warming-up advice next weekend and see if it helps....
(Chris, yes, it's with an added thumbplate.)
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Author: claire70
Date: 2008-01-14 08:14
Just read jhoyla's link:
http://www.tomsparkesoboes.com.au/toms_tips.htm
I'm intrigued by this line:
"If you are troubled by water in your octave vents even after you have taken them out and cleaned them thoroughly, try a thin smear of Vaseline inside the hole."
How do you do that?! Anyone tried it?
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2008-01-14 08:25
Don't go there, at least not yet. Tom is referring to removing the octave-hole inserts with a special tool (which I don't suppose you have).
If you put a tiny ring of vaseline just inside the hole, I suppose it will discourage water from flowing in there. It won't help with condensation much, however. A better solution is the AquaNix octave-bowl insert - perhaps cooper can tell us if this is effective?
Do a google search for AquaNix Oboe to see what this is. It is based on a US-patented idea you can read about here:
http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6124537-description.html
Invented by John de Lancie, no less.
J.
Post Edited (2008-01-14 08:39)
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Author: johnt
Date: 2008-01-14 15:03
Clare,
Something you should check is the possibility of an errant feather or swab strand or speck of dirt in the offending tone holes. If any of these are present, condensation water will form there & be wicked into the hole. Best way to solve this is to take off the main finger keys of the top tube & use a flashlight to look into the holes. If a strand is there, sometimes it can be pulled out of the hole. Then take a pipe cleaner, spray it with Woodwind All & ream the hole, being careful not to touch the back of the bore in the process. It is also a good idea to do this with the octave holes; investment in an octave hole insert remover ($30 or so USD) is necessary. Soak the inserts in alcohol for a few minutes then take a tooth brush & brush off both sides. Blow through the tiny insert hole & resoak in alcohol. Let dry or wipe off & then apply Woodwind All. You can spray directly onto the metal insert. The stuff is non-toxic so it won't hurt your fingers. Clean the octave holes with a pipe cleaner as described above & reinsert the inserts. Doing this every 3 or so months is excellent insurance in preventing the problems you wrote about. If you have further questions, please call or email me & I will be happy to walk you through the procedures.
Best,
john
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Author: vboboe
Date: 2008-01-15 07:10
have you had water problems in air temperatures 70-72F and up? If so, then some of the other sage advice could be very appropriate, if not, then it's probably cold oboe waterworks, very common problem in winter
you might like to get scientific and take along a thermometer to the cold rehearsal room, so you know exactly what you're warming up against, and it would be good to note how long your oboe needs warmup at that temperature for future reference
hautbois has said it, echo repeat, warmup oboe very well in lower & mid register *before* opening either octave key, once lower joint feels warm, top joint is usually hot enough to discourage condensation there
raising and nodding the playing angle is a practical trick for cold playing conditions in that rehearsal room, raising the playing angle would increase gravitational pull on droplets to the bottom side of the pipe, and nodding would shake them off thataway
or more discretely you could do body drops -- one ball of foot under chair, raise that hip, get in synch with any wide dropped interval, suddenly drop hip, jars the oboe, shakes water loose too (do this with elevated playing angle), you could also do this in warmups when you move along to octave leaps and drops (while concentrating on perfect octave intonation :-)
ye olde old woodwind teacher taught me a trick for warming up, run wet fingers inside the bell to start where you want the dripline to exit the bell, warmup until you establish a continuous drip-line -- then drop long silk swob from the top and draw out at the bottom, once only, to remove excess water in the exit direction
i find many short tootle tunes in books 1 & 2 band methods just perfect for warming up oboe in mid register (that's up to half-hole Eb) and it's really good for morale to play these easy tunes so much better than in earlier years :-)
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2008-01-15 14:03
Hello Claire --
From time to time, I have the same problems that you are describing. I can't say they ever go away entirely, but observing Elizabeth, et al's, suggestions for warming the instrument prior to blowing has reduced the incidence and severity of watering up for me by about 75%.
I put the reeds in to soak (and I have noticed that the reeds need MORE soaking on these cold, dry days), stick the top joint under my arm like an oversized fever thermometer, and sit patiently sorting through my music, etc., for 3 - 5 minutes. It is difficult for me to be still for that long when I want to get the session underway, but the advantage of doing so is obvious enough that I can make myself do it. I will often warm the lower joint in my hands or on my lap during this time, too.
I also do what I have observed my bassoonist friend doing, and that is, after the instrument is assembled, with reed in place (and be sure to shake the excess water out of the reed before putting it into the top), I continue holding my hands around the keywork, especially around the known offenders among the upper keywork, and blow gently into the reed, without making a tone, to warm up the reed, as well.
Doing all this is a bit tedious, but it makes a considerable difference in my ability to have a good play without all the gurgling.
Susan
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Author: sylvangale
Date: 2008-01-15 19:53
Something simple that Susan mentioned in a past thread is that when you pull the swab through, let it sit in the top joint for a little while before pulling out. That solved my little bouts of moisture build up.
Also make sure your swab is clean or get a new one if its scrunched thin. I find Hodge swabs to be better at absorbing moisture than Gem swabs I used to use.
♫ Stephen K.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-01-15 21:39
Avoid getting your silk pullthrough all scrunched up by flattening it after use, and then FOLDING it up on itself (lengthways), then fold it in half widthways and wind the string around it to keep it from undoing, then pop it in the bell.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: sylvangale
Date: 2008-01-16 07:07
I don't mean wrinkles.
As a swab ages it becomes irreversibly scrunchy: the fabric shrinks, thins, knots, breaks, etc. When it becomes in such a state, it needs to go.
I like to keep the swab folded in the case not touching the instrument though.
♫ Stephen K.
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Author: claire70
Date: 2008-01-21 10:12
I just want to say thanks to everyone for all your hints. I had more day-long rehearsals yesterday and saturday, in the same cold room, so implemented a lot of the suggestions that have been given. And I didn't have any water problems at all! :-)
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