 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Yoshi
Date: 1999-08-23 23:16
Hello everybody,
I would like to know how to flutter-tongue. Is there any tricks to do so? If I could flutter-tongue, there would be more pieces I could play (i.e. Vier Stucke by Alban Berg)
Thanks.
Yoshi
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Author: Daniel
Date: 1999-08-24 00:12
if you can roll your R's then you can flutter tongue. Some say it can be learned, but i've been trying to roll my R's for years now and still can't. I think it's in genetics.
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Author: JEff
Date: 1999-08-24 00:24
But isn't there a way you can still get the same effect?
JEff
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Author: Yoshi
Date: 1999-08-24 04:54
I cannot do flutter tongueing, but I know a way to get an almost same effect. If you sing when you are playing the clarinet (say uh when you play clarinet,) the sound will be like the flutter tongueing sound.
I do not like it, however. Because the sound contains the singing sound, too.
It could be more helpful if you could descrive how to do r's. As Daniel mentions, I know that I can flutter tongue if I can say r's.
Yoshi.
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Author: Lelia
Date: 1999-08-24 19:30
Maybe it would be easier to forget about rolling the letter "R" (since this is a natural "R" sound for speakers of very few languages) and just talk about what the tongue has to do. First try it without the clarinet mouthpiece. Put the tip of the tongue lightly behind the top front teeth, on the ridge of gums behind the teeth. It's easiest to begin the flutter for the first time by starting with a "ah" sound followed by a "D" (using your vocal chords this time, for practice, although singing is not part of flutter-tongueing on clarinet). Try to keep the tongue *loosely* against that ridge of gums while prolonging this "aaaddddd" sound. The tongue will begin to sort of bounce, very quickly, against the ridge of gums or the backs of the teeth, depending on the structure of the mouth. If you've ever seen a flag flapping in a corsswind, or sailboat aim a little bit at the wrong angle in a breeze, so that the sail starts to flap fast (and uselessly!) instead of catching the wind, that's the motion. It may take many tries before this happens, but it's startling when it does happen and you'll have no doubt at all that you really did it! Experiment with how much tongue pressure it takes to avoid having the tongue lift completely away from the gums. Once you "get it," you will be able to do it forever. For someone who has a prominent ridge of gums, it's easy to flutter. It's harder to describe than it is to do. If the ridge is not so prominent, the technique seems more difficult.
Once you can flutter without the clarinet mouthpiece, try it with the clarinet, only don't use the vocal chords any more. Just play any note on the clarinet normally, but with the tongue as close as you can get to the same position that works for you to flutter without the clarinet. Some people flutter-tongue with the tongue touching the reed, while for other people (including me), it's easier and produces a better sound, with fewer squeaks, to flutter with the tongue behind the reed, on the same ridge of gums as before, without actually touching the reed.
Good luck!
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Author: Daniel
Date: 1999-08-25 23:26
JEff wrote:
-------------------------------
But isn't there a way you can still get the same effect?
You can hum a low note or make a gutteral growl sound and that will make a similar sound. Only problem is that it only works well on the first register.
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Author: Bart
Date: 1999-08-26 11:50
***Lelia wrote:
Maybe it would be easier to forget about rolling the letter "R" (since this is a natural "R" sound for speakers of very few languages) and just talk about what the tongue has to do.
And:
It's easiest to begin the flutter for the first time by starting with a "ah" sound followed by a "D" (using your vocal chords this time, for practice, although singing
is not part of flutter-tongueing on clarinet).***
As one of those speakers (mother tongue Dutch, OK at German in a couple of accents) I tried to do it with the described A and D sounds. It didnŽt work.
If I would have to explain how to produce the much-wanted RRR-sound, IŽd do it like this:
Open your mouth slightly, make a small opening, and blow a steady stream of air. Just like youŽd say an F. (ffffffff).
Raise the back of your tongue a bit (touch your upper molars with the side of your tongue). Then slowly move the tip of your tongue to the roof of your mouth, just behind your front teeth, while easily blowing the fffffffs. Then, with me at least, the R starts rolling.
Give it a try!
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Author: Green Knight
Date: 1999-08-26 21:12
I fluter toung by going "D"s really fast with the toung... i dunno how i do it, but i do.
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Author: JEff
Date: 1999-08-27 19:49
Someone told me if you gargle in the back of the throat while playing you will get the same effect
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Author: DianeB
Date: 2016-09-11 00:38
Hi Folks,
The piece of flesh that holds the tongue in the mouth is called the "frenulum." My frenulum was so far forward in my mouth that I was almost tongue-tied. Today, they usually check for this when an infant is born and correct it early, which allows the muscles to develop properly. After years of torture (that is, I have never had a very fast tongue & used to get terribly frustrated); I had realized at some point that my colleagues who were fast had very, very long tongues, while mine was quite short, and theorized that this was part of my problem. I recently (finally) went to an Ear-Nose-Throat specialist about something else that was happening and as a bonus got an answer about this other condition. My doctor is stunned that no one ever checked my frenulum.
The doctor cut back some of the frenulum for me, which has really helped me. However, because of my age, he could not cut it back to where it really "should" be in order to have the flexibility to flap the tongue in the wind or really roll my "r"s. My tongue is also too large for the construction of my mouth, which contributes to this challenge, as well.
So, if you have students who are having difficulty with fast articulation, please check your students' tongues. If the frenulum is really far forward, have your students go see a qualified ENT before they get too old.
I have Don Quixote in front of me now, and am trying to come up with a good solution for my particular situation (including working on growling). I appreciate the tips in this discussion; just know that, for some of us, flutter tonguing is physically impossible for us to do. Please don't try to make your students or colleagues feel like inferior clarinetists (or present yourselves to be superior clarinetists) over this technique. :-) Let's make music!
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2016-09-11 00:43
DianeB wrote:
> So, if you have students who are having difficulty with fast
> articulation, please check your students' tongues. If the
> frenulum is really far forward, have your students go see a
> qualified ENT before they get too old.
>
So, without a medical background, would we be likely to know whether someone's frenulum is really far forward? Where does a "normal" frenulum attach?
Karl
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Author: DSMUSIC1
Date: 2016-09-11 02:27
Check out my channel below. I have a tutorial on flutter tonguing that I believe may be of help.
Dennis Strawley
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCszz66I824V7EyXu49bSb_Q
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2016-09-12 16:23
Yes Jeff is right. I gargle because I can't do it with my tongue. If you have a large or 'fat" tongue it's very difficult to flutter or double tongue. I used to gargle as a kid when I had a sore throat so I was able to do it when playing. When I start a note up in the altissimo register I have to start the note first and then start fluttering. The rest of the clarinet I can being immediately. Practice it on your throat notes first, there's less resistance.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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