 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Jim Reed
Date: 2002-08-16 20:44
Can anyone explain to a novice's father how to attach a lyre for marching band to a Buffet E11 clarinet?
Where does it go, and how is it fastened?
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Author: Dee
Date: 2002-08-16 20:56
Most of them go around the middle joint of the clarinet. So before assembling the clarinet, loosen the screw on the ring of the lyre. Then slip that ring over the metal ring at the top of the lower joint of the clarinet. Tighten the screw on the lyre ring so it doesn't slip.
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Author: Jim Reed
Date: 2002-08-16 21:03
Thanks, Dee. But won't that interfere with the linkage from the top joint that overlaps onto the middle joint (the flat metal piece that lays over onto the middle joint)??
We are talking about the pieces in this order aren't we? --mouthpiece then barrel then top joint then middle joint then bell??
Thanks again
Jim
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2002-08-16 21:36
Dee is quite right. The lyre mounting ring fits over the joint ring at the top of the right-hand joint. Your concern is also valid, as I have seen the lyre ring interfere with that mechanism. Fortunately, that's a condition that can be adjusted by a technician.
Regards,
John
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2002-08-16 21:39
Jim -
The bridge key usually has a cutout in it to fit over the ring at the top of the lower joint. The lyre ring is quite thin and should fit underneath with no trouble. I did this on the Bundy I used during hundreds of parades at West Point.
If it doesn't fit under the bridge key, maybe the lyre ring will be large enough to fit on the ring at the top of the bell.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Jim Reed
Date: 2002-08-16 21:41
Your advice is just what I was needing. I'll get it done tonight thanks to all of you!
Jim
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Author: ken
Date: 2002-08-16 22:06
Jim, NO; the lyre if assembled correctly will not interfere with the "linkage" from upper to lower joint and function of the horn. As you are a beginner/helper putting the lyre on try this. Assemble the horn starting with the lower joint first, sit down in a chair and straddle the VERY bottom of the lower joint (the tenon cork) tightly but carefully between your legs so it firmly sticks straight up. Now you have both hands to work with, take the lyre in your left/right hand and loosely affix the lyre's metal ring "exactly" and matching over the top of the existing metal ring of the lower joint and tighten securely. Now depress the 3 ring keys of the lower joint to make sure there's proper clearance "the flat metal piece" and it's moving up and down. Now take the upper joint and carefully screw it a little at a time down into the lower joint. Again, match exactly the upper "linkage" moving bridge parts flush with the lower. Also, test the upper joint to make sure the mechanism is working by depressing the lowest metal ring key with your left ring finger. Now you can put the rest of the horn together; screw the bell in next then the barrel and finally the mouthpiece. This is the order of precedence I've used my whole life, it's systematic, safe and logical: upper/lower joint, bell, barrel and mouthpiece. Have fun. <:-D
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2002-08-17 00:43
ken wrote: "...NO; the lyre if assembled correctly will not interfere with the 'linkage' from upper to lower joint...." He then suggests, after the lyre ring is attached to the right joint's tenon socket ring: "...depress the 3 ring keys of the lower joint to make sure there's proper clearance...."
ken, I wasn't kidding about having seen bridge interference. All Clarinets are not built alike. I now own a Clarinet which would suffer interference between any lyre ring and the left joint linkage. I have seen at least one other which also could not be fitted with a lyre ring without adjustment to the L/R bridge mechanism. I suspect there may be several models of Clarinets, especially those not particularly intended for marching, that may have similar designs.
Also, I really don't prefer your assembly order. I have seen lower tenons (bottom of the right joint) chipped due to being waved around during left and right joint assembly, including an instrument (now mine) whose former owner did it twice. So I suggest, especially for younger students, installing the bell on the right joint first, then proceeding with the balance of your sequence.. Of course, through use of proper care and caution, your way may be fine, especially as you are accustomed to it.
Regards,
John
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Author: Sandra F. H.
Date: 2002-08-17 01:45
It's risky using an E-11 for marching. Wood has a tendency to crack with weather and temperature changes. It's really too nice for marching. Have you considered getting a cheap, plastic clarinet for marching season?
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Author: Willie
Date: 2002-08-17 02:21
Something to consider,,,,can the student read the music that close? I've had to mount a couple lyres out on the bell ring as it was too close for the student to focus on.
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Author: ken
Date: 2002-08-17 02:59
JM, unless I have my head completely up my a** I think the point here is to help a "novice clarinet Dad" in need and NOT critique the great undiscovered. I'm truly grieved to hear the clinical afflictions your clarinet(s) suffers from, whatever Kmart brand (assumed Boehm system) might be. I've only played on 20 or so models of Selmers, Leblancs and buffets (1960-1998) the past 30 years and never had any problems screwing a lyre between middle joints so I wouldn't know how to help you. But, have you tried screwing the liar on the lower/bell joint? It's an old school and common practice known to work on occasion. As far as the "preferred" method of assembling a clarinet, it's of course, a personal preference. I'm ashamed to admit but at times I've assembled my horn (in a pinch) lower joint, then bell, then upper joint. I've personally never heard of anyone waving their clarinet around in the air and doing damage screwing the upper/lower joints together in sequence but I can certainly understand the phenomena if one is mentally impaired or can't wait to play. My diminutive advice stands. <:-D
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Author: Jim E.
Date: 2002-08-17 04:22
I marched for 4 years in HS both in parades and for field shows with a lyre on an 1960s BH wooden clarinet. The ring had to be installed just so to prevent interference with the bridge key. I left the ring on all marching season and just screwed the lyre on and off of the ring when I put the horn away and got it out.
Jim, if you don't know, you will also need a "flip book" to hold the music, this is then placed in the clip of the lyre and prevents the wind from tearing the music and provides for somewhat convienent turning. They cost a few dollars at a music store.
In my experience, a lyre is an awlful thing to put on a clarinet. It destroys the balance of the instrument and changes the presure felt at the mouth. Also, a brisk wind will make the instrument do all sorts of strange things. And be aware that accidental force on the lyre will be multiplied at the ring and could damage the instrument. Around here, competitive marching bands are required to memorize their music. As difficult as this might seem, I suspect it is easier than dealing with the lyre and flip book.
Sandra has an excellent point, unless you are very sure that the instrument will never march in the rain, it is MUCH better to use a plastic horn. (Most marching bands do march in the rain!) The Buffet B12 plastic is available mail order for $350 + shipping. Used plastic horns cost much less.
I have never seen the lyre on the bell ring, it would have been too far from my eyes at the age of 14, but might be just about right at 52! I suspect the balance might be even worse with it mounted down there.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2002-08-17 05:49
To me, this sounds like the Old Geezers War Stories Club Convention :|
Jim just wants to help put the lyre on his kid's clarinet. Dee was as direct and concise as anyone could possibly be. I hope Jim has had as good a laugh as I have and ignors the remaining responses
(including mine! )))
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Author: Sandra F. H.
Date: 2002-08-17 11:48
It probably would be better to ask the band director! We like to complicate things?
By the way, Dad, what is the serial # on the lyre?...Is it the correct size for the clarinet bore? Is it brass, silver or neither? Have you checked the tuning and intonation with the lyre on the bell and on the midjoint to see which has the best intonation? Does it aesthetically, pleasingly match the color of the ligature? (...sorry, Dad, I'm not making fun of you, but of my clarinet friends here...)
Truthfully, you don't have to purchase a new plastic clarinet. There are several used ones around, especially on ebay, if you act right now. In a couple of weeks prices will be at a premium. Now I see alot of Bundys and others going for less that $50. Good luck! Sandra
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Author: Dee
Date: 2002-08-17 14:15
If a kid needs to have the lyre mounted down at the bell rather than middle joint, then he/she probably is a bit far sighted and should be wearing glasses. This individual is probably experiencing eyestrain in normal reading or even avoids reading. This can affect their school work. So suggest to the parent that they get the child's eyes checked.
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Author: David Pegel
Date: 2002-08-17 16:58
Concerning the plastic clarinet ordeal, you can even see if the school has one to borrow.
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Author: BeckyC
Date: 2002-08-17 19:57
I have to say that I just tried my old lyre from High School on my Buffet E11 and it DID NOT fit like it used to on my Selmer signet that I used way back when. It does prevent the alternate left hand C from closing. All other keys are fine though.
This may not be the case with all of them. Maybe the key can be bent or something, but I would not recommend doing that yourself.
Becky
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Author: Willie
Date: 2002-08-17 22:28
I agree with Dee about the glasses, but I've noticed several kids who have a stigma about wearing their glasses in the presence of other kids, only at home. One boy gets so close to his stand that his trumpet bell has to go under or over the stand. He won't even bring them with him to school.
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Author: Lindsey O.
Date: 2002-08-18 23:00
I find it sad that a lyre is being used on an E-11. :( Or that a lyre is even necessary (though I *do* know that many bands have to use much more music than I did in marching band... we always memorized ours.)
I have had trouble attaching lyres to clarinets before w/o interfering w/ the playing ability. Personally, I find it rather difficult to march and read my music 4" from my face at the same time... I would prefer to memorize it and see where I'm going any day! Not to mention, see the drum majors!
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Author: Jim Reed
Date: 2002-08-19 13:38
Wow!! The replies have really flowed. Thanks for all of the input. As a matter of fact, I did get the lyre attached, and found, as Becky C mentioned, that the alternate left hand C will not close completely. Also, I do agree with many here that it will be smartest to get a cheaper clarinet for exterior use.
Jim R
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Author: Sidelines
Date: 2017-11-12 20:58
Hi. Sorry for dredging up such an old thread but this is the only place online I've found as yet that addressed my problem of not being able to get left-hand C when using the lyre.
I have a Yamaha 255 clarinet that I bought as a complete beginner at age 47, 3 years ago. I've now joined wonderfully wacky and endlessly tolerant of bum notes marching band but can't fit any of the lyres on and still be able to get that left hand C. Nobody else in the band has an answer for me on this, neither do the people in the store where I bought the clarinet.
Is this a good excuse to buy a new clarinet (if so, what kind?) or does anybody know of any lyres that actually fit this clarinet? I'd love to have all the music memorized but for now I still need the lyre for performances.
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Author: Sidelines
Date: 2017-11-12 21:37
Thanks.
I chatted with wwbw just now and they said they're sorry, they don't play the clarinet, but if I buy a lyre and it doesn't work, to return it.
I'll check directly with yamaha. :-)
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Author: GenEric
Date: 2017-11-13 04:01
I've used the same lyre and I play on a YCL 200ad. It's not a great lyre. For some reason, when I tighten it, the clip is not in line with the ring so at the tightest setting, it's tilted so you have to resort to doing this strange balancing act when it's loose. Also, be careful when you take it off. I tried to force it off and the lower joint metal ring came off with it as well. Be sure to loosen it all the way before removing it.
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Author: GenEric
Date: 2017-11-13 04:51
I've used the same lyre and I play on a YCL 200ad. It's not a great lyre. For some reason, when I tighten it, the clip is not in line with the ring so at the tightest setting, it's tilted so you have to resort to doing this strange balancing act when it's loose. Also, be careful when you take it off. I tried to force it off and the lower joint metal ring came off with it as well. Be sure to loosen it all the way before removing it.
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Author: Jmanola
Date: 2022-05-18 01:45
Since we mostly agree a wooden clarinet is not good for outdoor playing, I’m trying to attach a lyre to my Ridenour Lyrique clarinet, but the keys are interfered with as previously described. Has anyone succeeded with this? I emailed Ridenour but haven’t had a reply.
Thanks
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2022-05-18 03:05
Sidelines wrote:
> but
> can't fit any of the lyres on and still be able to get that
> left hand C. Nobody else in the band has an answer for me on
> this, neither do the people in the store where I bought the
> clarinet.
>
> Is this a good excuse to buy a new clarinet (if so, what kind?)
My answer would be another question: is there a passage in your marching band music that isn't playable without the lefthand C - i.e. sliding between RH C and Eb? It's not an ideal way to play those two notes, and going up from RH C to Eb isn't nearly as easy as going down. But I've had any number of students over the years who were very happy never using LH C unless I stopped them and nagged about it.
You might be able to get it to be stable mounted around the bell ring.
Or, there are wrist lyres and lyres that are attached to wood slats that you hold under your arm, both used often by flute players, sometimes by trombone players.
A third possibility might be to have the LH C mechanism adjusted to clear the ring on the standard lyre. The key would probably end up higher than you're used to and might be hard to find in a technical passage.
I certainly wouldn't buy a new clarinet over this issue.
Karl
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