 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2026-03-13 19:32
I recently enjoyed several YT videos of one-time Sousa band principle cornetist Herbert L. Clark, and this video appeared. It's interesting. It briefly discusses "K-tonguing", which I gather is part of "T-K" double tonguing. Clark published exercises for K-tonguing alone.
Does anyone practice that way on clarinet? That's said to promote the "K" attack becoming closer to the front or tip of the tongue, as opposed to being back in the mid-tongue area. Most clarinet videos I've seen demonstrating double tonguing don't extend into the upper clarion or altissimo registers; it's been suggested elsewhere that the alternate ("K") attacks coming relatively further back in the tongue is a reason for that limitation.
Incidentally, Clark is said to have single tongued 16ths at 180 bpm for one minute. I wonder about that "one minute" stat. Brass players tongue differently than clarinet players. How fast can clarinet players actually single tongue? Or double tongue?
The extended staccato 32nds passage in the Nielsen cto is marked 72 bpm, or 144 for 16ths. I'm not there, lol, but it's part of my routine single tonguing practice. Anyone here play it as marked? Single or double?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2026-03-13 20:23
It is a fact that there are individuals with extremely fast muscle fibers in their tongues and there are those without. I recall Julian Bliss saying that he doesn't double tongue because he just doesn't like the way it sounds. I've also had young students who I started on double tonguing and I got a question something like......"But how will YOU know if I'm double tonguing?"
For me, I approached my SLOW tonguing speed later in my life by developing a double tonguing technique that is ALL off the reed. This prevents a disparity in any physical difference from the T and the K. In essence there is really only a disturbance of the air flow rather than a pure "on" and an "off."
But I suppose there are many versions in between a pure "T" and "K" versus what I do for those of us who are not blessed with fast twitch musculature in the tongue.
..............Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: brycon
Date: 2026-03-15 20:15
Quote:
Does anyone practice that way on clarinet? That's said to promote the "K" attack becoming closer to the front or tip of the tongue, as opposed to being back in the mid-tongue area. Most clarinet videos I've seen demonstrating double tonguing don't extend into the upper clarion or altissimo registers; it's been suggested elsewhere that the alternate ("K") attacks coming relatively further back in the tongue is a reason for that limitation.
I practice the "k" syllable by itself. I learned to double tongue in middle school from a band director who was a flute player, but I just sort of goofed around with it. I later had a friend who's a very fine brass musician give me a double-tonguing exercise: play a scale single, play the same scale double (with a large air accent on the "k"), play the same scale double with the "t" and "k" swapped, and finally play the same scale only with "k." The idea is to even out the articulation so it isn't so noticeable that you're double tonguing. Later in college, my teacher, Charles Neidich, gave me more or less the same exercise. Perhaps it comes from some old brass pedagogy or something?
Quote:
How fast can clarinet players actually single tongue? Or double tongue?
I practice my scales single tongued in straight sixteenths at 160. It's my max and can hold it for only about the length of a scale. 140 to 150 I could repeat for much longer.
My double tongue is considerably faster. In real music, however, where you're shifting pitches and therefore resistances, it slows down to around around 170. (I'm in the process of recording that double tonguing Paganini caprice and aim for around 170.)
Quote:
The extended staccato 32nds passage in the Nielsen cto is marked 72 bpm, or 144 for 16ths. I'm not there, lol, but it's part of my routine single tonguing practice. Anyone here play it as marked? Single or double?
I can single tongue that passage at the written tempo. I've performed it a few times (in auditions with piano), though, and because of adrenaline, excitement, or whatever, it usually ends up going faster than the written tempo. So in order not to crash and burn and feel safe with it, I practice it double tongued and play it double tongued.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2026-03-15 20:33
So brycon, I have a question since your double and single tonguing speeds are so close. Is the option for you to double tongue mostly to save on physicality, or is there a sound style that makes the decision for you?
I ask since there is a video of Michael Rusinek giving a quick double tonguing tutorial. In it he says something like, 'there are so many other things to practice that I don't recommend spending too much time on double tonguing.' So it appears to me that his single tonguing, as yours, must be quite close in speed.
.............Paul Aviles (one with a S-L-O-W tongue!)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: brycon
Date: 2026-03-15 21:29
Quote:
So brycon, I have a question since your double and single tonguing speeds are so close. Is the option for you to double tongue mostly to save on physicality, or is there a sound style that makes the decision for you?
It's no so close on scales or repeated pitches. In those instances, I can double tongue around 190. But with that Paganini or the Nielsen, for instance, the back and forth leaps in the musical line have such drastic changes in resistance that the articulation slows down.
But at one point, yes, my single tongue was much slower than my double. But I practice my single tongue everyday, and I practice my double tongue only when I'm playing repertoire that requires it.
And also yes, in almost every instance, I'll use single tongue. But when the tempo is on the cusp, I'll practice it double. Last month, for example, I played the Mozart quintet. The string players liked to play the last movement pretty briskly, so I just practiced the sixteenth-note variation double tongued. And indeed, during the concert, by that point in the movement, the tempo had crept up a bit and required double tonguing. After so many years of practicing both, it's not so hard to switch up what you're doing. I can double tongue while sight reading: it's just muscle memory at this point.
Post Edited (2026-03-15 21:29)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2026-03-16 02:54
Thank you brycon........so still a technique consideration.
As for the Video, I think the intense eight years for Clark to achieve his double tonguing refers more to evenness of each note to the other as well as dynamics rather than speed. And the the term "anchor tonguing" refers to not using the tip of the tongue in the articulation process rather than any connection to a "stiff" posture. When you don't have an obstacle in your mouth (brass, flute) you do have more options.
.................Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2026-03-16 16:44
Thanks brycon for the input. It's surprisingly energizing. Time to dust off my metronome.
The intruding mouthpiece does bear heavily on tonguing technique. Still, I recall a Stanley Drucker interview where he was asked about achieving fast tonguing speed. He sidestepped to answer a better question, saying there are different kinds of articulation. There are options.
For example, Drucker's playing of the Nielsen Cto articulation passage sounds very different from Sabine Meyer's. He chose an overtly on/off sound, which I suspect (not knowing) was achieved with tip-to-tip contact. Her sequence sounds lighter and more connected, which I suspect (dittoly) was done with slightly off-tip contact points. Within amateur limits, I can seem to reproduce a similar difference.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
