 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ruben
Date: 2025-08-06 12:30
A friend of mine from the US studied for a while here in Paris privately with the retired teacher from the Paris Conservatory: a top player and a master teacher. My friend said it would have cost him over twice as much an hour in the US for an equivalent teacher. What is the average going rate for private lessons these days in the US? Obviously, it must be higher in New York or San Francisco than in Gila Bend, Arizona.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2025-08-07 19:20
I don't know if there is an average per se. I want to say that $40-$50 dollars per hour sounded good to me prior to tariffs and wild inflation (so wherever you want to adjust that number up from there).
Then you mention rates for great players. I think all the best players here are known as professors at esteemed institutions of higher learning and their fees are calculated into the (outrageous?) cost of university tuition.....for the most part.
I can tell you that Robert Marcellus would teach private lessons outside of his students at Northwestern University and they were paying around $500/hr and flying into town once or twice a month to have the privilege. That was in 1980s dollars by the way.
I think the best way to think about lessons is, "what do you want to accomplish with your studies?" One suggestion from a studio musician was to study with almost anyone in LA because that's were all the best studio jobs are. Another reliable technique is to study with someone in an orchestra you have your eye on. You may (MAY) wind up on the short list for subs if you're one of that person's best students.
Stuff like that has to be factored into the cost/benefit analysis.
............Paul Aviles
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2025-08-07 21:09
Apologies for any potential deviation from the OP's original question this brings.
I sometimes wonder if the astronomical amounts that legends of the craft charge is truly worth it. Are students paying in part for the cache of saying they studied with "X" on their resume?
It's even possible that some of the truly gifted players, also gifted at teaching are doing things that even good teachers don't, but is it worth the marginal difference in lesson cost?
I don't mean for a second to equate all teachers of the craft. But let's take Paul above as an example (don't worry a good one Paul.)
Paul, I bet you are an encyclopedic resource for clarinet pedagogy. Is it somehow different (inferior) when you assign "studies in 6th's" from Bearmann III than when some legend among us does, if you catch my drift? I strongly think not.
Perhaps a teacher's worth might be related to the number of students that find work in the craft after having studied with them. To that extent maybe Yehuda Gilad is worth his cost. But I've wondered, at a certain point, if, once a teacher makes a name for themselves, which I think is both ability and yes, somewhat luck (Russianoff and Drucker) driven, if the high caliber of student then attracted to them has as much to do with their success at finding student's employment and proficiency as it does anything else.
I suppose, in the final analysis a teacher's worth what people will pay them, but plenty of great players aren't great teachers and plenty of merely good players are great teachers (again the Russianoff example.)
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Author: ruben
Date: 2025-08-07 23:47
The great Jimmy Hamilton studied with Russianoff and paid...zero. He couldn't have paid more than that at the time.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: ruben
Date: 2025-08-08 00:17
I'm disappointed that Robert Marcellus charged so much. People get funny when they get a little money.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2025-08-08 03:59
There are MANY fine reasons to seek out a storied teacher. One example I like (maybe even presented on this very Board some years ago) is that of a cellist having developed a "drag" in techique and arranged for an expensive lesson with a fine player. After about five minutes of playing the teacher said the issue was that the student was using too much thumb pressure. Pointed out, the issue was solved and the student started packing up. The teacher said there there was still 45 left of the lesson but the student said that was the problem that needed to be solved.
You might be surprised at what another set of ears and eyes in the room can catch.
Of course the other side of this is that there are some really amazing players who have been such naturals at what they've done all their lives that they are really quite ineffective as teachers. The great Maurice Murphy comes to mind. He would frequently play the moment not working for the student, sounding perfect and amazing. But it was up to the student to interpret how to accomplish that him/herself.
You also have to be smart about being a student. Those free Russianoff lessons sound good! Leon was an amazing teacher.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: brycon
Date: 2025-08-08 07:00
When I lived in NYC, about 10 years ago, I charged $80 an hour. I still charge $80 an hour but in a lower-cost metro area. If it's a student I enjoy working with, however, I'll be rather flexible with him or her (if it's a student I don't enjoy working with, I'll just give them a recommendation for someone else rather than bump up the rate). And if it's a former student or a trial lesson, I don't charge anything.
When I was in NYC, $200 to $250 was typical for the highest profile players. The lessons, though, usually went 2 or even 3 hours. There was one player I knew of who charged $250 per hour (even for former students). But everyone thought it was pretty crazy, and it seemed like an outlier.
With regard to the Marcellus thing, $500 in 1980 is about $2,000 now. I imagine that amount stems from some urban legend and has ballooned over time. But if it were true, I think it's morally troubling for already financially successful players to charge young musicians such exorbitant rates.
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Author: ruben
Date: 2025-08-08 09:22
brycon: precisely! -"morally troubling" is the right expression. So studying music is just for the wealthy? 80 dollars an hour -often going beyond the hour- sounds like the going rate in Europe.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: kdk
Date: 2025-08-08 17:54
brycon wrote:
> With regard to the Marcellus thing, $500 in 1980 is about
> $2,000 now. I imagine that amount stems from some urban legend
> and has ballooned over time. But if it were true, I think it's
> morally troubling for already financially successful players to
> charge young musicians such exorbitant rates.
I've always wondered if those were really the rates the big name players charged or if they were meant to discourage every young player and his cousins from asking for lessons. Are there anecdotal accounts of what Marcellus's non-matriculating students actually paid? I wonder if he negotiated lower fees once he decided the student was worth keeping. Maybe $500/lesson was just what he told prospective students over the phone or in his initial responses to them. And what he continued to charge a student he really wanted to drop.
Karl
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Author: brycon
Date: 2025-08-08 21:31
Quote:
I've always wondered if those were really the rates the big name players charged or if they were meant to discourage every young player and his cousins from asking for lessons. Are there anecdotal accounts of what Marcellus's non-matriculating students actually paid? I wonder if he negotiated lower fees once he decided the student was worth keeping. Maybe $500/lesson was just what he told prospective students over the phone or in his initial responses to them. And what he continued to charge a student he really wanted to drop.
Yeah, perhaps.
I've heard stories of players throwing out high rates to discourage random students, though I've never actually had it happen to me or anyone I know. Again, it's probably a bit of an urban legend. The proper thing to do if you don't want to teach a random student is simply to say, "I'm sorry, I'm very busy right now, but you should contact X. He or she is a great clarinetist and might be better able to help you." Or if you want to drop a student, just be up front and drop them. I'd hope this weird game of chicken with the lesson rates isn't a real thing people do/did.
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2025-08-09 02:31
Kal Opperman, while a very headstrong pedagogue, particularly as it relates to students playing double lipped, was also reported to be more about the love of the craft than the spoils of lucrative teaching, charging in part based on what students could muster. The stock in trade that attracted him to you as a student seemed more about being moldable putty that would practice your arse off using his approach.
I had Russianoff as a teacher. I thought him wonderful at it and felt he was more flexible, less "one size fits all" than what I heard about Opperman as it regards approach to the instrument, if not money.
Post Edited (2025-08-09 02:33)
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Author: ruben
Date: 2025-08-09 09:52
In the US, are you supposed to pay taxes when you give private lessons? You are in France, but I don't know many people that do. That"s why they only accept cash payment.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: KenJarczyk
Date: 2025-08-09 18:43
I recently contacted a current member of the Chicago Symphony who would take a student upon reference, and for $300 hour. I think that is a fair price for a very valuable hour out of the life of a serious player’s life. It may only take one lesson, or two to seriously address and remedy any existing problem that made the inquiry necessary!
Ken Jarczyk
Woodwinds Specialist
Eb, C, Bb, A & Bass Clarinets
Soprano, Alto, Tenor & Baritone Saxophones
Flute, Alto Flute, Piccolo
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2025-08-09 18:55
I've found this conversation interesting.
I expected a quick answer with everyone being in the same ballpark.
Service industries usually stay within about 20% of one another here in the US (regionally).
In my region, a mechanic will cost you $110-$120 per hour today. Plumber...about the same. IT person, a little more, but within close margins.
Historically, lessons seemed to stay pretty close to these other hourly service rates.
I don't know what the pro musicians charge today, but if I were looking for lessons, myself, I'd expect to find a similar rate for an hourly lesson. The lesson is, after all, a service.
Having said that, I don't think there's anything immoral or unethical about charging as much as you want or can get. Only YOU know what your time is worth to you, and how much of your time will go into preparing/reviewing for that student. If you don't make it worth your while, you'll end up burning out or cheating the students by giving them all the same lesson. (As an aside, we've already convinced a good many students - and instructors - that they can't succeed without a $$$$ instrument, so if there's a barrier to lose - I'd start there, at the entry fee).
As far as taxes - yes - we claim them. I'm sure someone out there will start only accepting tips. Hahaha!
Warmest Regards,
Fuzzy
;^)>>>
[Edit: Corrected "...it there's a barrier..." to "...if there's a barrier..."]
Post Edited (2025-08-09 18:57)
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Author: ruben
Date: 2025-08-09 20:53
Fuzzy: My first private teacher was actually a garage mechanic (his day job)! I hope he was a better mechanic than he was a clarinet teacher. Actually he taught clarinet, accordeon, trumpet and drums..and also repaired all makes of cars.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Bennett ★2017
Date: 2025-08-09 21:58
Based on limited knowledge, in the SF Bay Area ~$100 an hour seems typical for amateur adult lessons. I've no idea what a 10 year old might pay for 30 minutes.
The Bay Area is very expensive.
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Author: gwie
Date: 2025-08-12 04:34
It can be all over the place due to a teacher's experience, the region's cost of living, and the willingness of students/families to pay. One of my mentors used to quote exorbitantly high numbers to try to avoid certain students!
Many of the numbers mentioned here, except for the extremes, are quite lower than what I currently charge hourly for lessons. Some of the adults I coach tell me that they get the same amount done in one lesson with me that they would get in multiple lessons with other teachers they have experienced, so they feel that they are getting their money's worth.
However, I do have a few younger players that I volunteer with a non-profit to teach entirely pro bono, so in the end, I think it all balances out. :P
Post Edited (2025-08-12 04:35)
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Author: Selmer Buff
Date: 2025-08-12 05:15
When I don't want to do a job, I quote high prices in hopes they'll go away. Doesn't always work.
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Author: ruben
Date: 2025-08-12 12:29
When I was a youngster, my high school -which was on the wrong side of the tracks-placed very few students in the all-state band and orchestras simply because the students of this school couldn't afford private lessons. It's not because they were any less talented. They were very good at playing soul music, mariachi and salsa music! Hence the ethical issue of private music lessons being unaffordable.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: kdk
Date: 2025-08-12 18:00
ruben wrote:
> ... the students of this school
> couldn't afford private lessons. It's not because they were
> any less talented. They were very good at playing soul music,
> mariachi and salsa music! Hence the ethical issue of private
> music lessons being unaffordable.
>
In the Philadelphia area there are several music schools, one large system in particular called Settlement Music Schools, that offer free or reduced-fee lessons based on financial need. In the case of Settlement Schools the discount/free program is supported by United Way, the faculties are quite good, and they have branches all over the city and nearby suburbs.
But this kind of arrangement takes the whole discussion out of the realm of private lesson fees. The schools take a hefty cut of the fees they collect and pay the teachers considerably less than the going rate for lessons arranged between the teacher and student directly.
Karl
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Author: elmo lewis
Date: 2025-08-12 21:03
Just to set the record straight, Robt. Marcellus did not charge $500 a lesson in the early 80's - it was $100. I knew people who traveled to Chicago for these lessons. These were not weekly or even monthly lessons. They went one time to have a brush with greatness and to be able to pad their resume. The topic of the class was how to play the solos in Schubert's Unfinished.
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