 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bsharp
Date: 2025-02-19 03:24
In midst of practicing (1 hour in).
Partner tried pressing on various pads/keys to no avail.
With effort can get a delayed awful sound.
Especially will not work at all going from f5 down to c5.
Low f (f3) sounds.
Any thoughts? (No cracks seen).
Stephen Schiffman
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2025-02-19 04:03
Are your reeds seating and sealing against your mouthpiece facing and not leaking along the rails or the table?
Is the speaker tube blocked with fluff or condensation?
Are your fingers covering all the toneholes without any leaks?
Are you accidentally touching or catching any of the 'sliver keys'?
Are the joints correctly aligned so the RH ring key pad isn't being held slightly open?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2025-02-19 17:12
Maybe the pad on the lowest hole, the one closed for B4 but open for C5, is frayed, or there's some partial obstruction in that hole. Or for some mechanical reason the closing pad isn't going up as far as its normal raised position.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2025-02-19 17:51
Bsharp wrote:
> Especially will not work at all going from f5 down to c5.
> Low f (f3) sounds.
> Any thoughts? (No cracks seen).
>
Let's clarify the problem if you can. What doesn't work? All notes from F5 to C5 or only C5? What about B4? What about notes higher than F5?
What about chalumeau notes? F3 sounds easily? What about E3? Notes between Bb3 and F3?
Karl
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Author: Bsharp
Date: 2025-02-20 01:41
Thanks for all your suggestions.
I let the instrument dry for 24 hours, then cleaned out the speaker tube. A teeny bit (very little) of fluff/stuff came out.
Instrument then played fine today. No problems even at the 1 hour mark of pretty constant playing.
I wonder if - as Chris P - suggested, it might have been a problem of condensation (in the speaker tube?).
I live in Maine, keep my instruments humidified in their case, but it is very cold and dry right here now; I keep my apartment at around 68 degrees F.
BTW, for your reference:
the instrument is an 18-month-old R13, with no real issues until yesterday. (Well, I did have my tech adjust some sliver keys that I kept hitting - another point that Chris mentioned- but that was not the problem yesterday). I am a decent avocational player - 65 years of playing - and still performing chamber music in public.
Stephen Schiffman
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Author: David H. Kinder
Date: 2025-02-20 02:51
Completely off-topic question:
Stephan Schiffman,
Are you the same Stephan Schiffman, sales trainer and author?
Might be a very remote possibility, but my copy of a Stephan Schiffman book shows that the age would be about right and he live(d) in New York City.
Just thought I'd ask.
Ridenour AureA Bb clarinet
Ridenour Homage mouthpiece
Vandoren Optimum Silver ligature (plate 1)
Vandoren #3 reeds
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Author: Bsharp
Date: 2025-02-21 16:40
No, David, I am not that person.
Funny thing, I leaned about him because I used to get messages on my home telephone answering machine (remember those?) from random persons thinking I was he, thanking me for his ‘great sales advice’.
Stephen Schiffman
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Author: David H. Kinder
Date: 2025-02-21 22:58
👍
It is a great book that I have of his. Not a bad name to be associated with!
Funny enough, I'm often mistaken for a son of "The Kinder Brothers" who are legendary in the insurance industry, so I get it.
Ridenour AureA Bb clarinet
Ridenour Homage mouthpiece
Vandoren Optimum Silver ligature (plate 1)
Vandoren #3 reeds
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Author: Bsharp
Date: 2025-02-28 05:59
Well it happened again today. Again, about an hour into practicing.
I tried swabbing out, etc. Helped a little bit but C5 hard to start. I’ll let it dry out overnight and check it again in the morning.
It had been working pretty consistently - I played in a recital with it last weekend.
Stephen Schiffman
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Author: donald
Date: 2025-02-28 09:07
Was it the same as last time- low F worked, but the C above didn't?
If that's the case, sorry itf this is obvious, but did you BLOW into the register tube to clear out condensation? If the low F is working but not the C, it must be the register tube... just by a process of elimination.
An experiment next time this happens- if the C jams up again, try playing the C by fingering Low F and having someone else open the "throat Bb trill key". This should get you a nice C, and if it works would clearly indicate the problem is the register tube.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2025-02-28 10:37
Some of the critical details that were asked about before are missing.
Is it only C5? What about B4 and C#5?
When it is happening, immediately try to play B4 by only adding the one key (i.e. without moving the clarinet, looking at it, checking various things, then trying to play B4), does it play?
Same for C# by immediately only adding the C# key and trying to play it?
If B4 and/or C# do come out, is C4 still not coming out immediately after?
You say it's worse if you play for example F5 to C5. How about F5 to B4 in that same context?
>> An experiment next time this happens- if the C jams up again, try playing the C by fingering Low F and having someone else open the "throat Bb trill key". This should get you a nice C, and if it works would clearly indicate the problem is the register tube. <<
You can do this yourself by leaning the bell on your knees and using the right thumb for that key. Even though it could indicate that, it's not necessary that it's the reason even if this C5 works and the regular fingering doesn't.
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Author: graham
Date: 2025-02-28 17:15
Any difference as between the left platform hand fingering and the right hand fingering?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2025-02-28 17:25
To me it sounds like your hands or fingers are getting tired as an hour of playing is a workout for anyone. And no-ones hands are going to be as they were back when we were in our teens or twenties as age is a bastard.
You're probably only just misplacing your fingers enough to cause a leak or are inadvertently catching the edge of a sliver key or another touchpiece.
Do you use a support of any type? While slings/neck straps offer some support, you still have to support the weight to get the playing posture, so they're not the best things.
I can thoroughly recommend a telescopic support (or 'kickstand') to take all the weight off your hands and arms, so either an RDG 'BHOB' or an ErgoBrass support - both clip onto the RH thumbrest and are adjustable, with the free end either resting on the chair cushion or on your right knee.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2025-02-28 18:00
Chris P wrote:
> To me it sounds like your hands or fingers are getting tired as
> an hour of playing is a workout for anyone. And no-ones hands
> are going to be as they were back when we were in our teens or
> twenties as age is a bastard.
>
> You're probably only just misplacing your fingers enough to
> cause a leak or are inadvertently catching the edge of a sliver
> key or another touchpiece.
>
Warning - this is a little involved and is much easier to show in person than to explain in text, so it's a little long.
As I've gotten older I've relied more and more on supporting the clarinet on a knee or gripping the bell between my knees. I've noticed in my own playing that when I do that, the clarinet tends to droop downward a little when my attention is distracted. A neckstrap can eliminate the drooping, but does little to provide side-to-side stability when you play throat notes with few or no fingers on the instrument. This drooping causes two problems: it pulls the mouthpiece just slightly away from my embouchure, compromising control; it subtly changes the angle of my hands/fingers as I cover the holes, which can leave specific holes slightly uncovered at their edges. The problem largely disappears when I concentrate on holding the clarinet up higher. Some slight pressure under the thumbrest (which we may teach our students but forget to do ourselves) helps me avoid the problem, and I imagine one of the supports Chris P mentions would eliminate it if that's the explanation.
Whether or not this is a possible explanation (it certainly wouldn't be the only possibility) may depend on your physical build - particularly the distance from your waist or your knee to your mouth when sitting. If you support the clarinet at the bell and the instrument is shorter than your knee-to-embouchure length, you either end up slouching over or shifting your hands. Either can cause poor finger coverage.
Karl
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Author: graham
Date: 2025-02-28 19:20
If fatigue is suspected, Stephen can switch to his A (or a second B flat) to test the proposition. Or rest for twenty minutes without swabbing. It seems rather an obvious point for him not to have considered it already.
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Author: Bsharp
Date: 2025-03-01 02:47
Quick update: I did not encounter any problem while practicing today.
But thank you all for your detailed ideas for sleuthing down the problem. I will go through them all when next it rears its head.
I harbor suspicions about the register tube. I bought a pair of A and Bb R13’s about 18 months ago. I had problems with the A that turned out to be caused by a poorly constructed (according to my tech) register tube. The Bb is not a “matched pair” with the A (probably built a year or two apart around the time of the pandemic before or after). But given the quality lapse of the A, it might be worth it for my tech to examine the Bb also.
Stephen Schiffman
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