 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ruben
Date: 2024-09-01 11:20
I often-more often than not-get the impression that my playing partners are playing louder than I am. They probably, likewise, feel this way about me! This is especially true when playing with another clarinetist. And whether it be in a chamber music ensemble or orchestra. Is this an acoustic illusion? How would you explain it?
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
Post Edited (2024-09-01 11:27)
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2024-09-01 12:50
I believe that what happens, is that depending on the frequency being played the angle of its sound projection from your instrument changes. So basically you will hear your own projection above your companions at certain frequencies, but they will seem louder than you playing other frequencies.
This is, at any rate, how I understand it, and it's actually a very interesting phenomenon to reflect upon in regards playing in a group, or just generally in respect to what one likely sound like to the listener.
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2024-09-01 14:56
Also, I would assume that the directionality of sound projection must have a lot to do with what proportion of it is being emitted from tone holes, and how much out of the bell . The latter is obviously projecting sound away from the player at 180 degrees , while the latter is being emitted at 90'.🤔
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: ruben
Date: 2024-09-01 21:19
There might be psychological factors involved in this real or spurious impression. In a conversation, don't we often get the feeling that the other person is talking more than us, whereas this isn't necessarily true?
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2024-09-02 12:10
You may well be right about that Ruben, but unlike the flute where you can lift your fingers right off the tone holes, so allowing freer sound dispersal, on the clarinet there is surely some degree of more directional sound projection created by deflection off the open pads, which would suggest that sometimes one would tend to be projecting one's sound rather towards one's companion, or visa-versa.
I was rather hoping that someone with real knowledge here would chip in, because it's rather an interesting question I think.
Is this matter raised just an illusion?...or is there actually something to it ?
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: m1964
Date: 2024-09-03 06:20
ruben wrote:
"I often-more often than not-get the impression that my playing partners are playing louder than I am. They probably, likewise, feel this way about me! This is especially true when playing with another clarinetist. And whether it be in a chamber music ensemble or orchestra. Is this an acoustic illusion? How would you explain it?"
I think it also depends on who the playing partners/instruments are. If it's a piano, trombone or sax- those are probably playing louder.
Plying with a string quartet, I feel that the strings can play piano much softer then I can, esp. when playing altissimo.
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Author: ruben
Date: 2024-09-03 12:41
If I may hypothesize: maybe our auditory systen has a damping effect for the sounds we produce but not for those others come out with. This would make others seem to be playing louder than ourselves. Is there an MD in the house that can explain the biological reasons for this impression? PS: Of couse, maybe our partners ARE playing louder than we are.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: LFabian
Date: 2024-09-04 02:53
To my right are the two first clarinets. No problem there. The 1st doubles as Eb. That is a problem because I don’t hear the right side and I only everyone on my left. My hearing aids have their limitations. Very loud sounds block out the rest of the band. The room we are using was not meant for a band room rather a ballet and yoga room.
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Author: brycon
Date: 2024-09-04 22:42
When I play with really fine colleagues, I feel as though they're always listening well and playing sensitively. I don't often get the feeling they're playing louder than me (unless I'm playing second clarinet).
When I play with less skilled musicians, such as in a side-by-side with students or some freelance gigs, I very often get the feeling others are playing more loudly. I think it comes partially from phrasing. If you're playing first and performing a crescendo and the second player does his or her crescendo earlier than you or with more dynamic contrast than you, it really steps on your musical toes. Not matching the first's crescendos, diminuendos, accents, note starts, tapers, etc. can give the feeling of the second playing more loudly even if that might not be the case in terms of decibels.
Maybe intonation can also make someone sound louder. I have a feeling less experienced players play sharp because they can hear themselves more easily. At any rate, when players match one another really well, in terms of phrasing, intonation, tone color, etc. things blend into one another, and I don't really notice others playing more loudly than me.
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Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2024-09-07 00:24
I agree with brycon. A lot of time, the underlying issue is a lack of sensitivity more than playing too loud. It is sad, but there are a lot of otherwise fine players who never got beyond the contest mentality of high school.
So far as intonation goes, many people will play louder when they sense intonation issues. Nobody ever told them "might don't make right". And nobody told them that physics cannot make a perfectly tuned clarinet and they have to actually listen to the pitch of other instruments, They blurt back, "well the tuner on my stand says my tuning note is OK'. All that means is your B or C tuning note matches a machine; it doesn't say that other notes are good, absolutely or in relation to other players. I hold my tongue.
If the part says ppp and you are playing it, things only work if the rest of the group follows this. It is a joy to play ppp with people who are listening. But if my part says ppp and needs to be brought out, but everybody else is honking to high heaven, I am sad to do it, but will make that ppp into whatever is needed to be heard while playing that line. Then I go back down to the ppp marking.
This all only comes from playing chamber music with sensitive players whose instruments sing with you.
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Author: ruben
Date: 2024-09-07 09:27
I sometimes bring the dynamic levels down a notch in the hope that other players get the message and start playing more softly. It doesn't usually work, unfortunately.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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