 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: clarinetering
Date: 2024-06-15 22:02
I want a vintage R13 from the 80s but they are really cheap and go for $1k-2k while the new R13 is $4k. Which one is better? Which one is more likely to be better? I was talking to someone who made first chair all-state in high school on a 1980s R13 and I was wondering if he just got lucky with the quality of the clarinet he got. Why don't more people get an 80s R13 if it got this guy first chair all-state? They usually get the new ones.
Post Edited (2024-06-15 22:09)
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2024-06-16 00:40
The new R-13 will definitely be...newer. A 1980 R-13 is 40+ years old, but if it has been well maintained by a skilled repair person, it can still play very well. Maybe the keys aren't as shiney on the 40 year-old instrument, but there's less likelihood it will crack.
But either clarinet can be played successfully in an audition for all-state, or a college band or orchestra, or even a professional orchestral chair. The player is the one auditioning, not the clarinet.
Karl
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2024-06-16 04:10
There is no question that the wood used to make the R-13 in the 1980s was on the whole of better quality than that used today for that model.
Francois Kloc of Bufffet, I once remember reliably reading, said that today, to get the wood of an R13 from the time period you quote (and earlier) that you need to be at least a Festival Buffet model.
That said, and to Karl's point we know little of how the 1980s instrument has been maintained.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2024-06-16 04:16
Attachment: reinforcednylonpins.jpg (208k)
I prefer working on older Buffets as they have proper point screws with a full length thread to them instead of the ones from the late '90s onwards with that annoying plastic collar (which doesn't do much in locking them) and hardly any threads. They may still have nylon pins in the LH levers from the mid '80s onwards, but they can always be reinforced with a steel core.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: LFabian
Date: 2024-06-16 20:56
I replaced my 1972 and 1993 R-13 with icon barrels and bells the more likely spots may show cracks. Happy I did it. Each has their own personality and feel.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2024-06-16 21:37
I'm not sure, from some folks' telling, that even the higher level models in the Buffet pantheon of new instruments are made of the same quality wood as the early (1950s to maybe 1980s) R13s are. But how many well-maintained instruments from the '80s (to use clarinetering's criterion) are being sold today? LFabian, were you the original owner of those two clarinets? I wasn't my R13's original owner, but I bought it back in the 1960s as a student through a teacher who was very knowledgeable.
50+ years after they were made and first bought, how easy is it to find one of those clarinets that's still serviceable? Granted any but the most extreme cases of neglect can probably be resurrected if you have the services available of a skilled repair tech, but at what cost? And new clarinets come with guarantees. I take as a given that you can't rely on the condition or past maintenance of anything you find at EBay or other public exchange sites. You might get something good or something that would be unexpectedly expensive to renovate. You'd might do better if you knew the previous owner personally or the seller did.
So, maybe part of the original question needs to include an idea of how you would look for the 1980s vintage instrument. If you find a very good one, it might be better than a new one you could get off the shelf somewhere today. But it's more of a gamble than a new instrument that comes with a manufacturer's guarantee.
Karl
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Author: m1964
Date: 2024-06-16 22:31
kdk wrote:
... 50+ years after they were made and first bought, how easy is it
> to find one of those clarinets that's still serviceable?
> Granted any but the most extreme cases of neglect can probably
> be resurrected if you have the services available of a skilled
> repair tech, but at what cost? And new clarinets come with
> guarantees. I take as a given that you can't rely on the
> condition or past maintenance of anything you find at EBay or
> other public exchange sites. You might get something good or
> something that would be unexpectedly expensive to renovate.
> You'd might do better if you knew the previous owner personally
> or the seller did.
>
> So, maybe part of the original question needs to include an
> idea of how you would look for the 1980s vintage instrument. If
> you find a very good one, it might be better than a new one you
> could get off the shelf somewhere today. But it's more of a
> gamble than a new instrument that comes with a manufacturer's
> guarantee.
>
> Karl
Karl,
You are absolutely right- about a year ago, a friend picked up a used R13 from a store that had 4 of them. We only liked the one he bought. At least, we had four to choose from.
With eBay or Reverb, a buyer may get lucky or not. But, as you said, it is most likely the clarinet bought on those action sites will need a major service to be in optimal condition. which will add to the cost.
With the prices on used clarinets going up, buying a new one may be a way to go. I would not say this even a year ago.
Esp. if the buyer goes to a shop where the owner hand-picks clarinets from the Buffet warehouse. Not only it will be a good player, the shop owner will check it and possibly correct all the little problems.
Sadly, many people buy off the internet sites, not realizing that those sites probably get the instruments that were not picked by the Buffet dealers.
Buying used still can be a good deal if the seller guarantees the condition of the instrument.
However, looking for a instrument from 80s because someone won a competition playing one of those is pointless, IMO.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2024-06-17 05:59
What's his point? Yamaha doesn't make Buffets or, in particular, R13s. They aren't meant to fool anyone - they have their own characteristics. If you like Yamahas, they're better made and in better adjustment off the shelf. If you prefer a well regulated Buffet, you just accept the set-up routine. This has been true since Hans Moennig's days in Philadelphia.
If that's not OK, you choose a different brand.
Karl
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Author: donald
Date: 2024-06-20 10:30
My experience... the 1970s Buffets are very nice but the A clarinets tend toward being more resistant and inflexible.... the 80s R13s- A clarinets a bit more patchy (many "duds") but the Bb clarinets sing well, very flexible instruments with a core sound that is richer than more recent horns.
Just my experience- from sampling only 35 to 40 clarinets over the years so not a large sample from which to base my opinion.
An old friend (who became a Lawyer, then a film studies lecturer!) sold her 80s Bb R13 to one of my students after an overhaul... and I could easily play this clarinet for the rest of my life.
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