 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Zeno_42
Date: 2024-05-21 16:41
So I’ve been an amateur clarinetist for roughly 40 years - playing with community bands and such. My current instrument is a Buffet R13 that I bought sometime in the 90s. The past few years I’ve been living somewhere with limited access to repair techs, so I took it in for tuneup/repairs on a visit back to the US last August. I did not have time to adequately test it in the shop before catching my flight back. Unfortunately I quickly discovered after I returned home that I would randomly fail to get sound on clarion B.
I’ve had it in to other repair shops several times since then - and they’ve greatly improved the issue - but it still just randomly fails to produce sound on clarion b. I can go for weeks with no issue, and then suddenly have it happen for an entire night, and then the problem just as mysteriously disappears again.
It’s rather maddening as I cannot consistently reproduce the problem, and when it does rear its head I cannot find a consistent way to work around it. At this point I can’t tell how much of the remaining issue may be the instrument and how much is me. I’ve tried a loaner clarinet during periods when I’ve shipped it off for repairs, and while the problem is abated it still occasionally crops up even then.
So I feel like there may still be a residual issue with my instrument, but part of it is something about the way I am playing. I never remember having this sort of problem before, so I’m struggling to sort it out.
Andy ideas or suggestions?
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2024-05-21 19:16
Zeno_42 wrote:
> So I’ve been an amateur clarinetist for roughly 40 years -
> Unfortunately I quickly discovered after I returned home that I
> would randomly fail to get sound on clarion B.
> Any ideas or suggestions?
The easiest test for whether or not the E/B pads cover, is to play a sustained D5 (fourth line up) and then very lightly press each of the E/B levers down one at a time. If any pressure is needed to get B to sound, an adjustment of the "crow's foot" or of one of the pads involved could help.
Since the problem you describe is inconsistent, have you considered that you may not be covering one or more of the open holes with your other fingers when B won't sound?
I've just turned 77. I've been playing clarinet since age 10, so a little longer than you, and have been a paid free-lancer and teacher in my area since my college days. I began having a similar, I thought mysterious, problem a few years ago. I eventually figured out that it wasn't the E/B lever mechanism. It was my fingers, sometimes RH index, sometimes RH ring finger, sometimes my LH index finger, which I suppose because of age are less flexible and don't always land where they need to. My fingers are not as supple as they were when I was 20 or 30. I have had to pay a great deal more attention to my hand position and have had to become much more aware of the feeling of the tone hole seats against my fingers. I have had to change the way I move my fingers - or maybe I've had for the first time to be careful about moving them the way my teachers back in college told me I should. As a younger player, I didn't really have to think about it. I just put my fingers down and they covered the holes. Now, sometimes, they don't.
Although this can affect other notes, any opening where air can escape will affect long B.
This may have nothing to do with your problem. Maybe it is something mechanical on your instrument. But as you pass through your early 50s, it's something to consider.
Karl
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Author: ebonite
Date: 2024-05-21 20:31
As well as a leak and/or fingers not covering holes, it could also be condensation in the register tube. You can remove any condensation by blowing into the upper joint, while covering all toneholes and the lower end, and suddenly opening the register key.
Post Edited (2024-05-21 20:31)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2024-05-21 22:13
I've always kinda liked problems like this without obvious answers (less so in my old age).
There may be an issue with cork (or whatever the silencing material is on the crow's foot) or even perhaps an odd issue with one of the pivot screw down there.
One that may be more likely (and less easy to check without taking more keys off) would be a loose post. That would have an effect on the efficacy of the associated needle spring.
Anyway, if the repair person that got some mileage out of a look earlier can tell you what he did, that may point you closer to the ultimate cause.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: Zeno_42
Date: 2024-05-22 03:08
Some good tips here. More info:
1) I tried Karl's test above going from D5 to C/E, but everything seemed fine. But since its so intermittent I'll have to keep trying for a while to see if I can reproduce the issue under those circumstances.
2) Two years ago I moved from the US eastern seaboard to the Australian outback. So its both warmer and much, much dryer than I am accustomed. So much so that I often can do an hour long concert and not need to swab out the clarinet afterwards... I've also lost notable weight in the last year and, as noted, I'm in my 50s now. So I would absolutely believe part of the issue is my finger pads not quite covering the way they used to. Its just weird to me that I played here for a full year without issue before this cropped up.
3) Pretty good analysis mechanically. The most obvious issue with the initial bad service was that he replaced the cork on the crow's foot, but didn't get the thickness correct. I think he rushed a bit trying to finish up before I had to fly back. So the lowest pad didn't properly seal at all. I tried self-repair by carefully sanding the cork by hand, but ended up mailing it to a trusted repair shop in Oz to properly sort out everything the initial guy worked on. That made things better - but it went from "can't play clarion B at all" to the current inconsistency. I sent it back to the same guy, and he fully disassembled the lower section to exhaustively check it out. He said the lower post was loose, and required some special attention to straighten out. Since then its been as it is now.
Just had a lovely blues quartet performance go a bit pear-shaped because the B failed when it was my turn to come in and we had to improv a bit until I got things worked out and could take back the lead. At this point I suspect its in my head enough that I tighten up crossing the break in anticipation and make it self-fulfilling.
Thanks all.
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Author: David Eichler
Date: 2024-05-22 04:43
While it is technically possible that all the instruments have problems with pads leaking, I think it much more likely the problem the problem is with the player not properly covering the tone holes. There might also be some possibility that the keys on all the instruments are not well set up and make it harder to cover the tone holes. However, unless all the instruments have horribly set up key positions, the player should still be able to cover all the holes, even if they can't move around on the instruments as easily as they ought to be able to. It might be worthwhile consulting an experienced teacher about this.
Post Edited (2024-05-22 05:17)
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Author: Zeno_42
Date: 2024-05-22 05:14
> The fact that the problem occurs with other instruments indicates that
> the problem is with the player, not the instrument, mostly likely fingers
> not properly covering the tone holes. Perhaps there is less of a problem
> with other instruments because of the way the keys are set up. It might
> be the case that the player's own instrument is not well set up as to key
> positioning. It might be worthwhile consulting an experienced teacher
> about this.
That makes a lot of sense to me. I think perhaps before this last round of maintenance my instrument was masking the issue because whatever misalignments had accumulated in the clarinet just dovetailed with my own tendencies. My clarinet and I grew eccentric together. I got the instrument straightened out, and now I'm the one out of alignment.
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Author: David Eichler
Date: 2024-05-22 05:38
Zeno_42 wrote:
> > The fact that the problem occurs with other instruments
> indicates that
> > the problem is with the player, not the instrument, mostly
> likely fingers
> > not properly covering the tone holes. Perhaps there is less
> of a problem
> > with other instruments because of the way the keys are set
> up. It might
> > be the case that the player's own instrument is not well set
> up as to key
> > positioning. It might be worthwhile consulting an experienced
> teacher
> > about this.
>
> That makes a lot of sense to me. I think perhaps before this
> last round of maintenance my instrument was masking the issue
> because whatever misalignments had accumulated in the clarinet
> just dovetailed with my own tendencies. My clarinet and I grew
> eccentric together. I got the instrument straightened out, and
> now I'm the one out of alignment.
For example, I have a couple of R-13s that I am very used to playing, both set up by very expert technicians, and they feel comfortable to me. I recently purchased a Backun Alpha clarinet and found that the way it was set up made it difficult for me to close the tone holes consistently, at least at first. I am getting more used to it as I play it, but I think I am going to have to have a technician adjust the key positions on this instrument. Also, I find the spring tension on the Alpha to be a bit too high, though that doesn't affect finger/hand position.
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2024-05-22 11:58
However much the phantom nature of these sort of problems, there is no such things as " the ghost in the machine ". If the instrument is properly hermetically sealed where it's supposed to be, and properly vented were it's supposed to be, then the respective note will be forthcoming, because physics is the only law enforcer that NEVER pops out for doughnuts.
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: Zeno_42
Date: 2024-05-22 14:00
Heh. No ghosts. But if you operate out-of-spec long enough you may eventually forget how to operate *in* spec. No ghosts in the machine, but the human mind is full of ‘em.
Post Edited (2024-05-22 14:01)
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2024-05-22 14:27
The mind is a powerful thing ....so never lend your instrument to Uri Geller.
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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