 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: graham
Date: 2024-04-12 15:49
Following Mark’s comment about the slowdown in topics, I thought I would ask what may be a basic question:
I have an old A clarinet with a somewhat resistant and buzzy B over the break. It also happens to be a bit flat, (and the corresponding chalumeau E is flat as well). There’s nothing wrong with the pads and tone hole rims down there, and there’s no obstruction in the speaker tube. The throat B flat (using speaker hole) sounds clear enough and tunes quite well. But to my eyes the speaker tube protrudes into the bore further than usual. I haven’t done any actual measurements, so it’s just an impression.
Would the length of protrusion make a difference to the B at the bottom of the instrument?
graham
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Author: Hunter_100
Date: 2024-04-12 19:59
The length of the tube is part of the instrument design and varies by maker and key. My e11 Bb and A clarinets have vastly different length tubes. The one on the A is really long.
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Author: m1964
Date: 2024-04-12 22:25
graham wrote:
"...I have an old A clarinet with a somewhat resistant and buzzy B over the break. It also happens to be a bit flat, (and the corresponding chalumeau E is flat as well)..."
Is the bell original?
The low E and F are known to be flat on all clarinets; the B and C above the break should be in tune or slightly sharp (if I understand correctly).
I'd look inside the tenon connection with the bell on and check if the bell tenon socket diameter and length correspond to the lower joint tenon.
If other notes are more or less in tune, I would not touch the speaker tube.
It probably would be safer to drill a hole in the bell to sharpen the low E and F, without affecting other notes.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2024-04-13 14:12
I shortened the ridiculously long speaker tube on my old ring key Selmer basset horn as it intruded more than 3/4 into the bore making mopping out tricky (the pullthrough would snag on it without fail), but that completely destroyed the upper register. After restoring it back to its original length, I set it into the top joint so it doesn't protrude as far into the bore as it did. You'll also see that done on some Buffet clarinets (I think the Vintage A is done like that). The length, diameter and shape of the speaker tube is definitely relative to the pitch of the instrument.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2024-04-13 21:25
>> I shortened the ridiculously long speaker tube on my old ring key Selmer basset horn as it intruded more than 3/4 into the bore making mopping out tricky (the pullthrough would snag on it without fail), but that completely destroyed the upper register. <<
I've done a bunch of tests on register tubes, but one that I haven't is whether the protrusion of the tube in relation to the bore makes a difference. Meaning you keep the tube the same length, diameter and shape (in case it's not just a cylindrical hole throughout its length), but changing how much it protrudes inside and outside the instrument.
Is that what you meant you've done? By how much did you move it? Did it make any difference? I guess the key had to be significantly modified to fit the tube if it was significantly farther out? Or it's not what you meant?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2024-04-14 00:33
That's exactly what I did - fitted the speaker tube so there's less than there originally was protruding into the bore/more of it on the outside and put a gentle bend in the speaker key arm so the pad cup sits parallel instead of at a wonky angle and the pad will have to sit unevenly, even if it is a domed or bevelled cork pad.
That's easier done with older Buffet A clarinets with the completely smooth sided speaker tubes (cut some shallow grooves around them to help them stay in place once shellacked in), or make and fit a spacer (wood or metal) onto the more recent stove pipe hat-shaped/flanged speaker tubes to fill in the gap.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: graham
Date: 2024-04-14 02:19
Responding to M1964: yes, it’s the original bell. It’s a cocus wood instrument, and the bell has (albeit faintly) the appropriate stamping. The tenon and socket are very long/deep, so a ‘foreign’ bell wouldn’t push all the way in. But I have tried another bell, and the pitch relationships are the same.
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Author: crazyclari
Date: 2024-04-14 17:05
Hi thoughts to improve b/e tone and pitch. Dry socket the bell by shortening the tenon to leave a hairline gap on the outside. Increase the flair on the bell. Put a breather hole in the bell. Happy to provide dimensions and location. I cant garuantee this will suit your clarinet. The mismatched tone also generally improves. Get another bell. The original bell on my clarinet was a dog. Hand picked one from a large batch generally a much better matching c/f to e/b tone and up to the f/Bb. Cheers
Post Edited (2024-04-14 17:13)
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Author: m1964
Date: 2024-04-14 18:59
graham wrote:
"...yes, it’s the original bell. It’s a cocus wood instrument, and the bell has (albeit faintly) the appropriate stamping. The tenon and socket are very long/deep, so a ‘foreign’ bell wouldn’t push all the way in. But I have tried another bell, and the pitch relationships are the same..."
Since it is a very old instrument, the bore dimensions might have changed over the years.
The instrument may have a historic value as well as musical and thus any alterations to it would decrease it's worth.
One solution could be an aftermarket bell, fitted to this clarinet by a tech who will lengthen the bell socket, maybe shorten the bell and/or increase its flare.
I personally would be hesitant to alter a historical instrument, esp. if it is in a good playable state.
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Author: graham
Date: 2024-04-14 22:40
Thanks All
I don’t want to change the instrument for the reasons mentioned, and although having a short bell made is a viable solution, it would probably be an expensive one. I suppose that a shortened speaker tube could clean up the sound and raise the offending pitch a little, but at what cost with the other clarinet register notes and the b flat? So I will live with the issue. It works well for many uses.
Thanks again
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Author: m1964
Date: 2024-04-15 01:09
While the bells from known names (Backun, Pereira, etc.) are expensive, there are many inexpensive ones on aliexpress.
For well under $100, I would probably try one of those, or go to my tech and ask if he has a bell he can fit to the clarinet.
A good technician might be interested in doing a job like that too.
Could you possibly post pictures of the clarinet?
Thanks
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Author: crazyclari
Date: 2024-04-15 04:05
Hi, I totally get not wanting to change an interesting older horn. from that site about 60us will give you some choices as well as second hand options which abound from shops and that site. I am currently testing out the first option and have previously tried the other options. IMHo unless you are turning up new register tubes to trial. I would not cut down the current one without a plan to be able to have/return it to original. I have a couple of Leblanc altos. They changed the register tube placement and design. I have picked up the register tube design i am after and am awaiting a joint to transfer the keys on to. The horns are from the early 70s.
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Author: graham
Date: 2024-04-17 15:53
I attach a picture of the clarinet. Having looked again at the speaker tube and compared it with another, I think it is more its narrowness (making it appear longer) and I imagine that could affect the clarity of the B accordingly.
Post Edited (2024-04-17 18:28)
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Author: graham
Date: 2024-04-17 15:55
I forgot to say, its a Jerome Thibouville Lamé, probably 120 years old
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Author: m1964
Date: 2024-04-17 19:32
Looks to be in very good shape. The rod screw for F/C+G#/D# is slightly out.
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Author: graham
Date: 2024-04-17 20:38
Yep, those don’t screw in any further. It’s had some running repairs which are not perfect in cosmetic terms.
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