 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2024-03-10 23:12
On my circa 1970 R13 Bb, the long lh keys for E/B and F#/C# have grown noisy. The little pins and holes of their articulations have worn so that there's gaps before and after making contacts, and those result in audible clicking during use. Especially the E/B key, which briefly rattles on quick release.
Options for fixing? Uh, besides earplugs?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2024-03-11 00:57
Attachment: reinforcednylonpins.jpg (208k)
Cut the corners of small plastic bags and slip them over the pins on the LH levers. A drop of thick oil will also help keep them in place when fitting them and also help keep the noise down.
While so-called 'fish skin' which isn't fish skin but is actually the intestinal lining of bovine intestines and also used as sausage skin, skin pads and also goes by the name of 'goldbeaters' skin' is favoured by some makers and repairers, it only stays put if you glue it on the pins, but it doesn't last too well.
Another option is have the metal pins removed and 1.8mm diameter holes drilled into the ends of the LH levers, then have reinforced nylon pins fitted - Buffet's nylon pins are a good shape, but they're notoriously weak as they have no backbone. Reinforcing them with a piece of needle spring of around 0.8mm to 1.0mm diameter will add the necessary strength to them so they'll last for decades and it's a simple and effective thing to do as opposed to wasting money on carbon fibre or stainless steel pins which could set you back £20 for such a tiny thing. The holes in the linkage pieces on the RH E/B and F#/C# keys will need to be reamed out to 2.4mm.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: m1964
Date: 2024-03-11 01:31
Very good advice from Chris above.
I also would check if the keys wobble/have any play between posts. If they do, swedging may be needed, in addition to plastic lining over the pins.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2024-03-11 02:12
The LH F#/C# lever does need some lateral play (but not wobble/wear) on the rod screw to be sure it can move sideways when in use as there's two perpendicular planes of movement going on there, not to mention two differing leverages.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2024-03-11 03:49
Chris P wrote:
> While so-called 'fish skin' which isn't fish skin but is
> actually the intestinal lining of bovine intestines and also
> used as sausage skin, skin pads and also goes by the name of
> 'goldbeaters' skin' is favoured by some makers and repairers,
> it only stays put if you glue it on the pins, but it doesn't
> last too well.
Chris, I wonder if the plastic bags might be too thick and bind the pins, but maybe it depends on what kind of bags you have in mind. I think your other suggestions are good for replacing the pins with quieter and more durable ones.
I'm a little puzzled by your saying that "skin" coverings need to be glued to stay in place. Using the coverings of "skin" pads was, back in the '60s and '70s, the standard way to quiet those levers. I never saw a repair person glue them in place. I've replaced them on my clarinets from time to time and never had one come off.
The only problem with replacing the pins with the reinforced nylon ones you describe (in itself an excellent alternative to silencers) is that it isn't for most of us a DIY job. I don't even imagine all repair techs have the skill level to do it successfully.
Karl
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2024-03-12 03:21
Another thing you can use is PTFE tape or plumbers' tape as that can be wrapped around the pins and will compress sufficiently once the pins are slotted into the linkage pieces and then worked a few times.
The worst kind of LH lever pins are parallel-sided ones, especially in the LH F#/C# lever and even worse still on clarinets with a LH Ab/Eb lever that runs between the LH E/B and F#/C# levers as that has more travel due to the longer linkage arm connected to the RH F#/C# key.
Pins with round or egg-shaped tips are usually the best shape, but still not perfect given the way the LH levers and linkage pieces interact with each other. The lifty-uppy-type linkage in this case is better, although it does need to have some lost motion between the LH F#/C# lever and the linkage piece to be sure the F#/C# pad will fully close. Some clarinets had adjusting screws (eg. Marigaux RS Symphonie) to reduce the lost motion in a much better manner, but the success of that depends how well the rod screw fits in the pillar head or how much wear is in the LH lever key barrel.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2024-03-12 14:38
Hi Chris. Thank you for the good suggestions. Replacing worn metal pins with nylon ones is well above my mechanical layman's capability, but I can apply a cushioning material as described easily enough.
I was also wondering how similar R13 keywork is on different instruments, eyeing the possibility of swapping worn parts out - not that I have a spare parts instrument handy, but the idea popped into mind.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2024-03-12 20:30
You should be able to replace older (up to the early '80s with metal pins) R13 keys with later (mid '80s onwards with nylon pins) R13 or Prestige keywork with some refitting - or even with Uebel keywork in some places as they've more or less copied Buffet's keywork.
I've currently got an R13 Prestige in for a full overhaul and someone's snapped the LH Ab/Eb lever clean off and lost it, so I doubt I'll get much change from £200 for a replacement. Maybe more seeing how everything's shot up in price in the last year and a bit.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: JJB
Date: 2024-03-13 01:41
My mid-90s R13 was doing the same thing for quite awhile - incredibly annoying. I got it overhauled a few months ago and they added some cushioning material as discussed here. My keys are so quiet now...what a relief!!
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Author: m1964
Date: 2024-03-13 04:51
JJB wrote:
> My mid-90s R13 was doing the same thing for quite awhile -
> incredibly annoying. I got it overhauled a few months ago and
> they added some cushioning material as discussed here. My keys
> are so quiet now...what a relief!!
Do you know if they added the cushioning only or they swedged the keys too?
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Author: JJB
Date: 2024-03-14 05:14
Not sure about swedging. I just said "PLEASE make this stop." And he did. The technician actually wasn't there when I picked up my clarinet so I didn't get to ask for any details.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2024-03-14 09:48
>> The LH F#/C# lever does need some lateral play (but not wobble/wear) on the rod screw to be sure it can move sideways when in use as there's two perpendicular planes of movement going on there, not to mention two differing leverages. <<
Yes, which is why the best shape for the pins is a sort of ellipse shape. It can be done by removing or sometimes even squeezing some of the sides of the pins. This keeps the top and bottom sliding like in a fork and ball linkage, but prevents binding from the planes changing from that sideways movement.
It would still be affected a tiny bit from it but it can be a significant improvement over a regular ball, as it's not precise to a micron or anything like that, and any binding is usually not from tangent top and bottom, but the ball shape itself pressing against the the hole somewhere along its side.
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