 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: atrain
Date: 2023-12-09 01:40
Wanted to share my discovery of some really good cane.
I recently found a supplier of made-to-order clarinet reed blanks that sources their cane from several different cane growers in the Var region of France I had never heard of.
I bought 30 made-to-order blanks from each of their 6 varieties of cane: excellent-quality cane, in my opinion.
Well worth taking a look at:
https://www.aurora-winds.com
Post Edited (2023-12-18 01:12)
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Author: Ed
Date: 2023-12-09 03:30
Quote:
Advice: Don't even try to carve your reeds with a knife and file. I wasted many months trying to do so. Burn Opperman's useless book: The modern clarinet reed must be cut with an extremely precise profiling machine.
Certainly it takes a good deal of practice and skill, as well as a razor sharp knife to make reeds by hand. Using a machine shortens that learning curve and process immensely for most people.
I will say though, that on a few occasions I witnessed Kal Opperman make a reed starting from tube cane, pretty much only using a knife in a very short time. it was both amazing and fascinating to watch the speed and accuracy and to hear the quality of the reed he was able to produce- resonant and responsive. Quite a feat and not for the feint of heart!
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Author: lmliberson
Date: 2023-12-09 19:35
Overall, the sounds like an advertisement to me...but whatever...
"Wild-or-small-farm-grown cane produces a more brilliant tone than plantation-grown cane."
Really? Based on what studies? Which players? Can you provide any kind of empirical evidence to support what appears to be a very subjective posturing?
"Making one's own reeds from Laura Armstrong's "connoisseur-quality cane" is well worth it because the "plantation-grown" cane used by the major manufacturers of clarinet reeds results in a tone inferior to that from wild-or-small-farm-grown cane."
Wow...after a very long and productive career, I just learned I had an inferior tone. Amazing. How on earth did I stay employed? 🤷🏻♂️
"Listen to any pre 1970 Cleveland Orchestra recording. Robert Marcellus' tone is absolutely unsurpassed: Warm, sweet, brilliant. He used Morre reeds made from wild/small-farm-grown cane."
What - you didn't care for his post-1970 sound? Hmmm...
Anyway, while I might imagine he (Mr. Marcellus, that is) would definitely credit the Morre reeds as integral to his sound, it wasn't the only thing that contributed to that sound. Consider the mouthpiece, the ligature, the embouchure, the voicing, etc...the musician! To attribute his sound solely to a reed is not only silly, it's pure nonsense!
"Brilliance of tone is the primary reason a truly artistic clarinetist would invest the money, time and energy to make their reeds with connoisseur-quality cane with a highly-precise profiling machine like the Uhl RPM68-2."
"Brilliance" is one of those words which just might mean something slightly different for each and every person who reads it. Like other so-called "descriptive" words, this is practically useless - think of bright, dark, creamy, chocolate, warm, sweet, covered, uncovered, naked...oops..losing my atrain of thought here...
Everyone has their own concept as to what they would choose to sound like and will use whatever word to describe it. Ultimately, unless you have gone through the Vulcan mind meld with such person, you will very likely come to your own conclusion.
Like I already said...an advertisement.
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-12-09 20:11
Having worked in agriculture, I know that the use of artificial fertilizers and also irrigation rates WILL influence the organic structure of vegetation. In places like Devon where houses were traditionally thatch roofed,the life expectancy of a newly thatched roof is far less than what it once was due to the artificial fertilizer content in todays thatching material.
Also pushing growth results in a lower carbon density in plant material and plantation grown cane may well be pushed more than that of small farm suppliers.
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2023-12-10 06:08
Kal Opperman, referenced here, smartly pointed out that your most precious asset in clarinet advancement is your time. He also made reeds by hand during a point in history where commercial computer run reed cutting machines and their precision, used by mass production vendors today, weren't available.
So, for the exception of people who truly enjoy making their own reeds and approach clarinet more as a hobby, the rest of you would have to believe that the time you spend effecting this endeavor is more productive that the gains you'll achieve from more practice time playing commercial reeds, albeit ones you will likely need to take some time to make some relatively minor adjustments to over creating from scratch.
And sure, you can't spend all your time practicing, so that free time could go to reed making, but if you are trying to make a living as a performer, you're probably practicing, or should be practicing so many hours a day between auditions that the remaining time is spent on life's other necessities, including making a living that often doesn't support the added cost of boutique reeds.
And if you are a professional player, you might very well lack the time to make your own reeds with your own practice and teaching schedule, nor will such boutique reeds still not require adjustment to your play and setup.
I think Opperman's reed making book is far from useless. Reading it without ever taking knife to cane will still leave the player with better understanding of cause and effect in reed creation. Better stated, the book is outdated (not useless) by machinery that can effect more precise and repetitive cuts than the freehand reed making of Kal's era.
Or maybe you think the reeds made by a boutique artist are worth their extra cost over store bought ones. I'd suggest a cheaper route is to buy the ATG reed finishing system once--whose only additional cost once purchased will just be more sandpaper, and adjust commercial reeds.
We can debate the role of pesticides and the effect on making cane playable, but the notion that Marcellus' tone came from pesticide free cane would not explain why we have great players today that play cane so treated. If pesticides negatively influenced cane to the extent described then why is Steur's pesticide free product, while certainly respectable, not far and away universally accepted as the best playing reed out there?
As for purchasing your own reed making equipment, it will give you far greater precision than freehand reed making but not more precision that most reed vendor's computer controlled equipment costing 100 times more.
Brilliance of tone is the primary reason a truly artistic clarinetist would invest their time and energy into long tones i think, not reed making, nor IMHO boutique vendors who make reeds.
Show me the most perfectly symmetrical cane reed that man can make and I'll show you a reed that only coincidentally will be as well balanced as it is physically symmetrical. A piece of cane is not uniform. One side can play harder than the other even if cut near identically from side to side simple due to inter-reed differences. Two near identically cut mass produced cane reeds can end up in 5 or more different commercial strength categories because of these differences in strength from one piece of cane to another.
A far better balanced reed comes from playing that near symmetrically cut commercial reeds and then removing material (from the harder side) to account for strength differences in the reed, to make symmetry in play not contour.
The idea that a boutique vendor may be able to copy a vendor's contour for profit may also violate patent protected shapes.
Others will disagree; that's okay. I submit that my approach provides the greatest benefit to the greatest number of players.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2023-12-10 06:59
Quote:
Anyway, while I might imagine he (Mr. Marcellus, that is) would definitely credit the Morre reeds as integral to his sound, it wasn't the only thing that contributed to that sound. Consider the mouthpiece, the ligature, the embouchure, the voicing, etc...the musician! To attribute his sound solely to a reed is not only silly, it's pure nonsense!
That is for sure. He was an amazingly gifted player. While his equipment was a part of it, I heard him pick up student's instruments and lo and behold, he still sounded like him.
To say he was a fantastic musician would be a huge understatement.
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Author: ruben
Date: 2023-12-10 22:10
Julian : Do some reed-makers claim their reeds are made from organic cane? A label stating "Organic-"bio" in French" would be a good sales argument and would maybe ensure that that playing life of the reed has a good chance of lasting longer. I'm surprised that they use fertilizers for cane. Seeing as it's basically a weed, I should think it would grow quite well naturally.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-12-11 11:28
Hi Ruben,
You are absolutely right that cane is basically a weed and I doubt that fertilizers are used by comercial growers. In fact I doubt that any of what I mentioned likely has much bearing on the quality of reeds, but I think it's good to remain open minded to the possibility that there tends to be some elements of variability in plant based materials for a range of possible reasons.
I can't seem to find it anymore, but has anybody seen that YouTube video of the old gent who worked for Leblanc testing reeds, who claims that the variability between reeds is not down to the natural material variables, but is almost entirely from miscalibrated cutting machines?
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2023-12-11 20:05
Julian ibiza wrote:
>
> I can't seem to find it anymore, but has anybody seen that
> YouTube video of the old gent who worked for Leblanc testing
> reeds, who claims that the variability between reeds is not
> down to the natural material variables, but is almost entirely
> from miscalibrated cutting machines?
>
That sounds like something from one of Tom Ridenour's videos.
https://www.youtube.com/@billyboy647/videos
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-12-11 21:39
It's true that Tom R worked for Leblanc, but the video I saw was from someone else. It was very interesting, but I found it accidentally and now can't seem to dredge it up .
Basically his story was that he was in charge of finding providers of reeds worthy of carrying the Leblanc label,and went to a small manufacturer in France who only had one reed cutting machine. He worked with them to calibrate it until it produced a first rate reed. He said that the variation the average box of reeds comes down to the fact that they tend to come from a number of cutting machines which aren't calibrated finely enough after resharpening etc. He said that that one machine he worked with them on in France as a reed tester, churned out perfect boxes of reeds for some months, after which their quality dropped, as the machine was probably overhauled or something , but at this point he was back in the US.
The point of his story was that reed variation does not derive from any inconsistency in the natural cane material, which rather suggests that cane is cane is cane and doesn't have significant base quality variation.
( I guess I'm dismantling my own previous speculations here ... Ha-ha!)
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: ruben
Date: 2023-12-11 21:47
Julian: At any rate, my bassoon friends that make their own reeds are constantly trying cane of different origins: Turkish, Chinese, different parts of the Var, Spanish... They must find that there is a difference according to the cane's quality and origin.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2023-12-11 22:28
> The point of his story was that reed variation does not derive
> from any inconsistency in the natural cane material, which
> rather suggests that cane is cane is cane and doesn't have
> significant base quality variation.
>
> ( I guess I'm dismantling my own previous speculations here ...
> Ha-ha!)
>
Hi Julian:
Rather than debate that a near perfectly cut cane reed with respect to its midline symmetry, as well as its profile being cut to its design attributes within the tolerance of less than a human hair (Vandoren's so called tolerance) let's focus instead on the absence of differences in cane material so claimed.
To this point--and maybe I am misunderstanding either you or the individual you quote--it is well accepted fact that many reed manufacturers cut their reeds of a particular make and model (near) identically, and them subject the reeds to a hardness test that then determines what strength box it will end up in.
The test often involves a machine that blows a consistent pressure of air for a consistent period of time and at a consistent distance on a consistent point on the reed's tip, measuring the reed's deflection: the less deflection the stronger strength box the reed ends up in. In this approach it is recognized that purely mother nature, and the variability in cane she produces, is what determines the reed's strength--at least by this test, not reed cut profile.
So at least as it regards reed strength, no way is it correct to say that cane reed cut contour produces the variability seen in reeds of a particular make and model (e.g. Vandoren V12 Soprano Clarinet reeds).
Of course this speaks nothing to whether said cutting machines produce the results claimed or the quality assurances processes in place to keep them calibarated. Furthermore it speaks nothing to the methods for incorporating strength into synthetic reeds.
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-12-12 11:02
You are both right. The old gent's version of things does pose several questions.
In another video I found while trying find the one of the old Leblanc gent, it is offered that growing the cane in regions with a lot of cross winds creates the ideal suppleness in the material, which I found an interesting detail. They seemed to use all the leaves and wast material from the cane to mulch it which makes sense.
While the Leblanc gent may be right inasmuch as the good balance of a reed derives from the machining ,it stands to reason that the strength of a reed varies for a given thickness based on the individual nature of cane material.
If there weren't a lot of variables involved in making reeds,
then they wouldn't tend to have the degree of inconsistency that they do.
It's nice really because it's something bound up with an art in a word where so little is anymore.
While cane is basically a weed, my experience in agriculture make me inclined to believe that the material WILL have cultivation and region related quality differences.
Wind !..... who'd a thunk it .
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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